Huey Yankee

[NozeMan]

Now you guys could replace everything in HMLA.... I know it's not a true possibility, but it seems cool enough.

Preface: I love the -60, great to fly, fairly reliable....but that just looks wierd!

 

[phrogpilot73]

But is the large investment the Marines are making upfront for a 'different' aircraft really worth saving a few bucks down the road on parts? It is not like the Navy has a shortage of H-60's. Don't a pair often deploy with an LHD/LHA?

Wow. You sound a lot like the engineers I work with. Completely out of touch with how Marine Air operates, yet pontificates about how they SHOULD operate.

We don't build our aircraft based on what Navy asset is on the ship with us. Why? I didn't see many Navy H-60's with the MEU in Afghanistan when they pushed ashore back in '01. We are different because we are self-sustaining once we go ashore. That's what we build our aircraft for - to maximize our capability and sustainability when we've left the amphibious ships and have to survive on our own.

 

[Flash]

The savings in personnel and space on an LHD or LHA almost can't be quantified in dollars. It just so happens that having 60s would make the Marine Corps look the same, too, so there's that.

But they should be, especially in the likely upcoming budgetary enviroment. You know, 'no bucks, no Buck Rogers'. Spending $100 up front to save $5 over the next 5 years makes no sense. And while I am not suggesting that the investment in the UH-1Y is that lopsided, I haven't seen any comparison of the costs between buying the H-60 and the Huey, it certainly seems the Marines are throwing down a lot of money for an aircraft that is way behind and way over budget with the promise of savings further down the road.

Wow. You sound a lot like the engineers I work with. Completely out of touch with how Marine Air operates, yet pontificates about how they SHOULD operate.

We don't build our aircraft based on what Navy asset is on the ship with us. Why? I didn't see many Navy H-60's with the MEU in Afghanistan when they pushed ashore back in '01. We are different because we are self-sustaining once we go ashore. That's what we build our aircraft for - to maximize our capability and sustainability when we've left the amphibious ships and have to survive on our own.

At what cost though? And self-sustaining to what point? Politicians from both sides fo the aisle have been talking up how they are going to expand the number of troops in the Marines and Army, and while that appears to be a certainty now budgetary pressures may not ensure that all of those new Marines and soldiers have the requisite equipment. I am certain they will have the necessary body armor and rifles, but what about the larger equipment needed to move them from point A to point B. While there may be more Marines what is to ensure there will be the needed number of LHA's, helicopters and amphibious vehicles? They will be among the easiest things to cut.

Just because the Marines are so wedded to a certain way of doing business doesn't mean it is the right way, or the way it will be. Budget realities will force all services to make some very hard choices, compromising on certain things in order to get the job done. Insistence on the UH-1Y/AH-1Z might result in a reduced buy for them in the long term, especially if costs continue to rise. That would certainly ensure that there would be a smaller footprint. What happens if the Marines can only buy 70 UH-1Y's? What do you do then? IT might not be a problem if less LHA's are bought. Completing an H-60buy might have ensured aircraft making it to the Marines quicker and cheaper than the UH-1Y, in the numbers necessary. Might it have made things ashore a little more difficult? Possibly, but to paraphrase an Army guy, a good helicopter today is better than a perfect helicopter next week.

P.S. I endured my time with a MAG.

 

[2Blades]

I think both arguments are valid. Yes, the Marine Corps has a way with trying to be different. But one has to look at the footprint of the HMLA. The HMLA would pretty much double in size if 60s were used instead of Hueys. As it is now, the same Marines can fix the systems on both birds with the same parts. Not the case if you had different engines, avionics, blades, etc. The savings in personnel and space on an LHD or LHA almost can't be quantified in dollars. It just so happens that having 60s would make the Marine Corps look the same, too, so there's that.

The Marines can fix the systems on both birds but different parts, to my knowledge the -1N and -1W have no commonality now.

There will be very limited commonality between the H-1s until the -1Z comes, and as a matter of fact, the -1Y is about a 1ft or so longer than the -1N and pretty much the same size as a H-60. You can throw shipboard space out the window - After standing several IWO watches on Iron Gator I doubt there is much size difference between the -1N and H-60.

After posting this comment and reading the posts about all of the costs:
To amplify what what Flash said: "A good helicopter today is better than a perfect helicopter next week"
When it comes down to it, I really do not care about having all that Gucci sh!t in the helicopter. What I really need is simply a Bell 412 with the same avionics and FLIR that I have now and I will still have a little more payload for weapons or pax.

 

[2Blades]

Now you guys could replace everything in HMLA.... I know it's not a true possibility, but it seems cool enough.

I have actually heard those same words thrown around in the skid community.

 

[Flash]

When it comes down to it, I really do not care about having all that Gucci sh!t in the helicopter. What I really need is simply a Bell 412 with the same avionics and FLIR that I have now and I will still have a little more payload for weapons or pax.

Okay, dumb question. Why didn't the Marines just buy Bell 412's?

 

[2Blades]

Don't know... the Canadians have them.

 

[2Blades]

Are there any Yankee RACs or any recent -1Y refreshers on the forum? I need some Yankee gouge! You can probably guess why I am asking. I can send you my contact info if you send me a private message. Thanks.