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If the Commandant...
- Thread starter phrogpilot73
- Start date
That's a two way street though. I do agree that things like this get blown out of proportion by the liberal croud and are used in an attempt to leverage policy change. I also agree that we shouldn't necesarily be swayed by those tactics on policy matters. The other side of that coin is that many on the right, in an effort to discount the left's argument, will say that these things have a negligible effect on the overall hatred of the US - I.E. they're a recruiting tool. I get that as a rhetorical device, but I'm not sure that squares with reality. There's all kinds of anecdotal evidence that these things do contribute to recruiting. It's not a simple or mechanical as some portray it - guy sees video then reports to AQ recruitment office. There's an incremental aspect of this culture clash and we do ourselves a disservice by dismissing it or pretending it doesn't exist. Does that mean we change our policy? Well, that depends, but since this is ultimately a battle for hearts and minds, legitimacy counts and incidents like this are significant setbacks.
Brett
Right. It wasn't so much the what happened at Abu Ghraib--and regular Iraqis would admit that far worse things happened under Saddam--it was because prior to that we adamantly told the world that we were better than that.
Same thing with this. I'd wager that the Taliban would freely admit that pissing on dead bodies is less insulting than beheading a helpless captive and not giving the body a proper Christian burial. Of course they can rationalize their actions, but that's beside the point. The problem is that they see this video as red-handed proof that our side is not so much better after all.
Well, we, uh, adjusted our pacification plan for Fallujah in 2004 after something similar to that happened... which is what I think you were getting at.
The thing is, if our strategy to combat terrorism is to create an Afghanistan with a functional government that is able to address the needs of its citizens, we've got to make that government a viable and attractive alternative to the Taliban. It's not that we're trying to win over the hard-core insurgents. We are in a tug of war with the insurgents for the loyalty of the everyday Afghan citizen who can choose between supporting the insurgency or the Afghan government. To the extent that we are associated with the Afghan government, the Afghan citizen's opinion of the US matters.
Brett
Looks to me to be a waste of perfectly good piss.
Not at all and that's not what I'm saying. These few individuals are in no way examplars of the American Way or all of USMC. I'm saying it's a tad naive to think that we as Americans are somehow immune to the horrors of war. Again, not an excuse, more of an explanation.
As I always say, it's better to be pissed off, then pissed on!
Their leadership is as much to blame as they are. One of the express purposes of even having officers around is to prevent this from happening. Now, I can't believe that any officer would allow it if they were physically there, but, as we've made clear, it's not a new phenomenon for troops to fuck with the bodies of their dead enemies. They should have been well inoculated before it ever happened. CBTs and Marinenet courses on the Law of Armed Conflict cannot substitute for real mentorship/leadership, especially when we're asking so much of our " strategic corporals."
Now there is a cliché that has a lot of meaning.
This latest story is a very very negative example. And unfortunately, sometimes it's easy for the general public to forget about the positive examples. Well there is a long history of the American G.I., once the smoke has cleared, showing kindness and humanity to children and other innocent victims of war.
Try not to lose sight of that good image, folks, because it's real.
If I'd spent 6 months getting shot at and mortared by those bastards, I'd probably piss on them, too. Still though, the person who filmed it is a moron. The person who put it on youtube is a bigger moron.
All that aside, a law is still a law. They broke it, so unfortunately there will be hell to pay (particularly because of all the media attention and mass hand-wringing). People get very emotional over bullshit whilst sitting in their comfortable chairs in their living room, and have no calibration for what it is like over there.
As per usual, the Taliban takes a completely dis-proportionally innocuous event against them and scores a victory in the media (they are fighting and winning a PR war, after all).
All that aside, a law is still a law. They broke it, so unfortunately there will be hell to pay (particularly because of all the media attention and mass hand-wringing). People get very emotional over bullshit whilst sitting in their comfortable chairs in their living room, and have no calibration for what it is like over there.
As per usual, the Taliban takes a completely dis-proportionally innocuous event against them and scores a victory in the media (they are fighting and winning a PR war, after all).
Karzai is pretty pissed (haha) about the whole thing as well. Maybe it doesn't matter what the Taliban think about us, but this is probably going to bite us in the ass diplomatically later on when dealing with the Afghan Government.
Ain't war a bitch. What else are they supposed to do?
Brett
Exactly what they are doing. I'm just stating a fact. They are doing a very good job fighting the PR war. Worked in the past, and it will continue to work, no matter how transparent it is to a very few.