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IFS in Pensacola

Well, I think the definite trend is that IFS down here just sucks in general. The number of horror stories is ridiculous. Seems like people who did it near their ROTC units had a much better time and learned more.
 
SlickAg said:
With only 3 flight schools in the area, all they'd have to do is have a list of maneuvers and give them grading criteria. They run a couple of classes through using the grade system, and then note the differences between each school. I'm sure the schools, being businesses, would like to keep their contracts so they'll adapt as necessary. Obviously there will be some subjectivity in the grading, but it exists in primary as well. There are hundreds of instructors who have to hold students to the standards listed in the master curriculum guide. Will some instructors grade harder? Yes, just the nature of the beast. All in all, I support the idea. I had a friend wash out of IFS, and it seems to me the big reason was the lack of consistency between the instructors. He was being told and taught one thing with his instructor, and then was held to a different standard with his check ride instructor.
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Your story proves the point. It's not a matter of grading harder or not, it's a matter of consistency in training. Every IP in CNATRA (and beyond) goes through a Stan syllabus and is routinely checked to see that he/she is adhearing to the standards. The same can not be said for the civilian side, as evidenced by your anecdote.

And imagine trying to make sure that a civilian instructor (who had been teaching) was teaching correctly when he no longer teaches at the school because he left 6 months ago, but he had taught a good number of students before leaving.

I'd love to see it work, I just doubt that it actually would and, as a result, think it would be a bad thing to be graded on the material, especially when most of it gets thrown out the window when starting Primary (and beyond).
 
I think the wrong message is getting portrayed. As far as the NSS score I don't know anything other than my opinion and I already stated that, but as far as the flight schools... when you take IFS from 400 to 3 schools in P'cola and the 3 that I know of around the academy it becomes much easier to monitor and assess the quality of work done in order to build a greater deal of consistancy in the Studs coming out of IFS, if for nothing else there is a reduced amount of check pilots and thus less fluctuation in standards.

Personally I am glad to see IFS picking up some of the slack it was intended to 3 years ago. Its not too cheap to train a stud who is just going to wash out, beyond that it was a lot of pressure on the instructors to get the ALL the studs through. Turns out the 2 I was told to make sure no matter what they finish, one DOR'd and the other could not make it. Both good guys, but not everyone can fly simple as it is.

There is another issue to contend with here and that was the Navy's responsibility for damage to civilian aircraft. I know of at the very least over $400k in damage to a/c by IFS studs. Thats a lot of coin to pay out when lets face it, it may have been better to just keep them on the ground. The $ liability is another big reasoning for a lot of the changes so I am told.

As far as the quality of instructors, doesn't matter where you are some suck some don't. I think its piss poor the way civilian aviation has all the newbies teaching other newbies while the real experience drinks coffee while they are watching their busses drive themselves. That being said there are many people out there with thousands of hours of dual, and they are great instructors and really enjoy instructing, however the majority of them barely have their feet wet enough to realize that they have to be effective and professional in order to put food on the table, that or they are just too burnt out on a very stressful lifestyle, and it's the student who suffers.

Personally instructing was not for me, I am glad I have my CFI and I use it from time to time, but I realized it long before I became completely ineffectual, unfortunately many CFI's have no other options to build hours, as (mostly) everything on the outside is all in a little book.
 
gatordev said:
Your story proves the point. It's not a matter of grading harder or not, it's a matter of consistency in training. Every IP in CNATRA (and beyond) goes through a Stan syllabus and is routinely checked to see that he/she is adhearing to the standards. The same can not be said for the civilian side, as evidenced by your anecdote.

And imagine trying to make sure that a civilian instructor (who had been teaching) was teaching correctly when he no longer teaches at the school because he left 6 months ago, but he had taught a good number of students before leaving.

I'd love to see it work, I just doubt that it actually would and, as a result, think it would be a bad thing to be graded on the material, especially when most of it gets thrown out the window when starting Primary (and beyond).
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Roger that sir. I think a couple of things are behind this.

Number one, it's easier to monitor and ensure that 3 schools' instructors are sticking to standards. I think the Navy finally noticed the lack of standardization across the board and unfortunately, the good deal of doing IFS while stashed at your unit is coming to an end. I never heard of ANYONE failing IFS if they did it at their school. However, I have heard of people, and know a guy, who failed it in P-cola. I think they noticed the discrepancy and are taking action.

Number two, I think they want to have some recorded history on the attrites. If they had been consistently noticing that some guy was sucking, not studying, I think it would make them feel justified about kicking him/her out.

I think that some type of numeric grade that follows you to primary is a bad idea, i.e. MIF. However, I can understand if the Navy wants some standardization and a way of being able to say, with justification, this kid's doing well, he's marginal, or he sucks.
 
I have a proposal. Since it seems that IFS is becoming more than just civilian flight training, I think we should start a new IFS forum before the API forum in the Naval Aviation Training section.
 
I think part of my confusion is whether they really are going to 3 schools. I know it's been mentioned before, but hadn't actually heard if it was true. Personally, I think IFS is good for nothing more than showing people what flying is like. But I say that for the same reason that some people say having prior flight time is a negative thing. If a stud can learn to relearn, then no problem, but when you get the guys that want to do it "the way they did it before," it just becomes more annoying (speaking as someone who had a bunch of time before starting Primary).
 
FWIW, whoever said there were three flight schools in the Pensacola area was wrong. I know of at least four schools that IFS is working with right now: Pensacola, Mobile, Destin, and Milton.
 
Add Eglin to that list.

The 5 IFS schools in the P'cola area are: Pensacola, Mobile, Destin, Milton and Eglin.
 
That would be my bust I believe, at one point a few years back there were only 3 from what I was told in P'cola, I'm more familiar with the naptown situation.
 
IFS Manassas, VA

IFS is pretty cool compared to TBS, except we awesome lieutenants of Mike Company are being punished (someone in IFS disrespected a Captain) and are going to 6:45 formations every morning. Pretty funny. The scheduling gets jacked up sometimes, so people get screwed out of flights, but if you get a chance to go to IFS up here at Manassas, try to get Jim Stone as your instructor. Great guy and very patient and informative. TBS is trying to rope us into doing the Leatherneck program for the Naval Academy, but Pensacola has too many slots open and not enough Marines to fill them, so we won't wait long at all to start API. I graduated Fox Co. and will hopefully start late June or early July.
 
I completed IFS last month at Destin. The day of my IFS brief, the schools were already chossen for us (P'cola, Milton, Destin, Mobile, Eglin). However, that is not always the norm. I was planning on choosing P'cola had I been given the opportunity, mainly because of the drive. However, I was very happy with Destin. The instructors were great and I had a good time while learning alot. The week of ground school (mainly videos) was less than thrilling though. I had no previous flight experience. I completed the NFO syllabus in 23 calendar days. It can be done faster or slower if you prefer.

As far as the other schools go, I have limited second hand knowledge. Eglin is done very fast with a classroom ground school. I heard the instructors are very knowledgable and you will learn a lot. Milton has a night ground school which may appeal to some. I have heard good and bad things about P'cola. The main thing to note is that you are at the mercy of airline traffic and one of the runways is currently closed. I have no info on Mobile other than the ground school is on CDROM and is take home. For those that want the radio experience and have noticed that Destin is a non-towered airport, you will still get the same experience as everyone else being that Destin is inside airspace controlled by Eglin.
 
Surprising that Eglin is considered to be "fast" now; it was kinda slow when I was going through, and ironically Mobile, with only two planes, was the fast one. It took me ~70 days to get finished with IFS at Eglin, so count your blessings now.
 
Found out today that the IFS SNFO syllabus is changing to the SNA version and they will get the same hours and training. Marines graduating TBS are being sent to IFS and Pcola as quickly as possible. (For us graduating with Bravo Co July 2 anyway) No more waiting around Quantico doing Mike Co working parties.
 
Cavrone said:
Found out today that the IFS SNFO syllabus is changing to the SNA version and they will get the same hours and training. Marines graduating TBS are being sent to IFS and Pcola as quickly as possible. (For us graduating with Bravo Co July 2 anyway) No more waiting around Quantico doing Mike Co working parties.
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When exactly is it changing, because latest (4 MAY)from MATSG MOCO is SNFOs 40 calendar days to complete 12.5-15 hrs while SNAs get 60 days and 25 hrs. So I guess Bravo guys getting more hours

Also said 6 July should be the first guy in Alpha to start the SNFO pipeline (API).
 
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