iranian tomcat data iran iraq war

[flaps]

can't vouch for the validity but there are several familiar names in the info.
the families of these guys were held under house arrest duruing that time frame and several of the air crew were executed.
hey,
a kills's a kill.
.
http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_210.shtml

 

[SteveG75]

Osprey has a great book on the Iranian Tomcats that basically backs up that data. Unfortunately, it is currently out of print.
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/store/Iranian-F-14-Tomcat-Units-in-Combat_9781841767871

 

[flaps]

i have a copy. be happy to loan it to anybody who cares to read it. send a pm.

its not really very objective but not a bad read.

pretty sure we NEVER had a weather cnx the whole 3.5 years i was an instructor rio there. a few delays for sandstorms, though.

 

[wlawr005]

wow...they were shooting down 4-5 planes a day for a few years. That's a lot.

 

[HeyJoe]

Irony is even with inflated claims discounted somewhat, their successes in aerial combat exceeded the vaunted USAF F-15. Even more ironic is Tomcat in US Navy service contributed more in actual combat capability as a precision strike platform in its last years of service; a role not originally envisioned for it whereas it's aerial prowess was vindicated in Iranian service.

 

[Catmando]

Irony is even with inflated claims discounted somewhat, their successes in aerial combat exceeded the vaunted USAF F-15. Even more ironic is Tomcat in US Navy service contributed more in actual combat capability as a precision strike platform in its last years of service; a role not originally envisioned for it whereas it's aerial prowess was vindicated in Iranian service.

All quite true, with one small additional info.

The early F-14As were partially set up to drop bombs. There was the auto BOMB mode on the wings-weep coolie hat that worked. And the HUD control panel had a working Bomb mode.

But when the Marines decided not to take the F-14, all work on finishing it to make it a bomber stopped. The F-14s we had were about half-finished and never completed for bombing. We always wondered how much it would have taken to make them capable.

===========================

I have an Iranian friend whom I flew with at my airline, and we still maintain contact. But as an 18 year-old, he was in the infantry on the front of the Iraq-Iran war. He had some really amazing stories, including being the last surviving member of his platoon, although severely wounded as Iraqis overran his position on the frontier. (he was buried by building blocks of a wall, from a tank attack. )

But his best memories he said were watching Iranian F-14s overhead, shooting down Iraqi MiGs! To this day, he still thanks me on my birthday, for ferrying one to Iran.

 

[flaps]

iran story follows.
those folks were very good about exceeding max pax on a motorcycle.
driving to khatimi airbase one morning with mule holmberg ,rick alverez and joe becker. we pass a 250 cc machine with 5 folks on board. the last guy is facing aft, pulling a wheelbarrow..... there's two kids in the wheelbarrow.

...
stumbled across this..
...
http://www.sanfranciscosentinel.com/?p=15581

 

[flaps]

re:
"All quite true, with one small additional info.

The early F-14As were partially set up to drop bombs. There was the auto BOMB mode on the wings-weep coolie hat that worked. And the HUD control panel had a working Bomb mode.

But when the Marines decided not to take the F-14, all work on finishing it to make it a bomber stopped. The F-14s we had were about half-finished and never completed for bombing. We always wondered how much it would have taken to make them capable."

my input,

the f14d, in its final configuration was pretty much on a par with the strike eagle.

btw, the strike eagle wso has 4 (maybe 5) mfd's. the f14 d had one plus the ptid.

common f15 wso complaint,
"we're display limited."

 

[bunk22]

I've also got the Tom Cooper Iran-Iraq Air War book which talks about the F-14 slaughter of Iraq aircraft as well as F-4 and F-5E kills. I think the kill count is around 130 kills with another 20 or so probable with 3 losses (maybe up to 6) in the air to air arena. Anywhere between a 43:1 to 21:1 kill ratio. That is of course if the data is accurate.

 

[scoolbubba]

What happened to the bubbas from the Shah's Air Force that we trained? I imagine being a mid grade officer trained by US advisors was not something you'd want to have come up during your fitrep debrief, post revolution.

 

[flaps]

several were executed (the good guys) several wound up in the states. any that i trained would be in their 60's now, like me.

 

[A4sForever]

What happened to the bubbas from the Shah's Air Force that we trained? ...

Slight (very slight) threadjack:

I trained 4-5 former IIAF jocks on the Boeing 747 who were "moving up" to fly the Shah's Whales ... they were pretty good guys once they learned the joys of taking a daily shower & using deodorant. They were all moving their families to Europe, pre-revolution, and talked quite openly about the coming thunderstorm. Hope they made it ...

I later flew a couple of those birds on the line when we had them. The passenger variant was originally slated for gold fixtures in the heads and the freighter was to carry limo's and APC's for security during the Shah's travels overseas.

/slight (very slight) threadjack

 

[Flash]

I think any numbers coming out of that war when it comes to kills is very suspect. Even if only half those kills were accurate the Iraqi Air Force would have been much smaller at the end of the war than it really was, there were still hundreds of targets left for us to destroy just a little over two years later. And having worked with a former Iraqi Air Force MiG-21/23 pilot who claims two kills himself, an F-4 and an F-5, the accounting for 'kills' in that war seems a bit loose for both sides (the Iraqis would lose one aircraft in a dogfight with another damaged and the Iranians would claim 5 kills, etc).

One only has to look at Arab claims against Israel as an example how claims in that region are suspect. While the Israelis are often very tight-lipped about their losses there is a lot more knowledge and truth about their losses and kills than from the Arab states they fought, which were often detached from reality. That alone gives me great pause when taking a look at these numbers and ACIG in general.

 

[flaps]

the older i get, the better i was.

ntxt

 

[bunk22]

I think any numbers coming out of that war when it comes to kills is very suspect. Even if only half those kills were accurate the Iraqi Air Force would have been much smaller at the end of the war than it really was, there were still hundreds of targets left for us to destroy just a little over two years later. And having worked with a former Iraqi Air Force MiG-21/23 pilot who claims two kills himself, an F-4 and an F-5, the accounting for 'kills' in that war seems a bit loose for both sides (the Iraqis would lose one aircraft in a dogfight with another damaged and the Iranians would claim 5 kills, etc).

One only has to look at Arab claims against Israel as an example how claims in that region are suspect. While the Israelis are often very tight-lipped about their losses there is a lot more knowledge and truth about their losses and kills than from the Arab states they fought, which were often detached from reality. That alone gives me great pause when taking a look at these numbers and ACIG in general.

That's certainly been the theme in air combat since the beginning. Guys like John Lundstrom come out with books that are so well researched and you see that in Guadacanal, the Marines overclaimed 2 to 1, the Navy a little less and the Japanese like 10 to 1. Or if we took Vietnam for its word, they have something like 10+ aces who shoot down 100 American jets. Tom Cooper is the only person who has attempted to look at this subject and he lists his sources and until another attempt is made, it's all we have to go off of. What say you Heyjoe, you know Tom Cooper right? What do you think of his research?