Is there something wrong w/ Army avation?

[Jreb892]

I am a senior in high school, and counting down the days until I am eighteen. I will soon be out of high school (six months or so!). The clock is ticking, and I am getting nervous.
For a couple years now I have known I want to fly. At first I was convinced was going to be a fighter pilot for the Air Force. I was thinking about joining AFROTC in college and go from there. This will take a while, 4 years of college/ROTC and more training after that, right?
Recently I have thought about the army. I would love to fly some of their helicopters. I could go to basic training this summer (9 weeks), warrant officer school after that (6 weeks), finally Warrant Officer Flight Training (40 weeks). If I get high enough scores on the amplitude tests, I could get this in righting, before I sign a contract. In less than two years of training I could be flying helicopters, right? After that I cold get degrees, go to OSC, etc. So in 6-7 years of the army I could be an officer, helicopter pilot and get paid for all of my training, and get free degrees. If I go Air Force/Navy/MC it would take 4years+training and lots of money for me to fly, right? The army rout seems better and better. Why does this forum seem to ignore the army? Is there some big flaw in my army plan that I don’t see?

 

[vegita1220]

...why would it cost money for Navy/USMC? They'll pay your training also, as well as college. And you get a friggin stipend.

But more importantly...look at the gold wings on the top left...those are NAVAL aviator wings. USN/USMC training only here.

 

[PU Grad]

From what I understand, (read as "has no clue what he is talking about") army officers do not spend their time flying. That is left up to the Warrant Officers. Once you reach the rank of Lieutenant, you very seldom do any flying (mostly bureacratic job).

The reasons none of us are considering this path:
1. Most of us want to get a college degree
2. This website began with the Navy in mind


I am not sure what you mean by being paid for your training. If you are in the Navy, Marines or AF, you will get paid during your training to become a pilot. If you don't get accepted into the Academies or ROTC you will have to pay for your education. Some people are joining the reserves so that some of college will be paid for.

Kobyra

 

[bch]

Something you need to consider also...
If you enlist in the army and go through basic training, you are NOT GUARANTEED to get into Warrant Officer school. If you are thinking of going this route, talk to the recruiter about getting into the warrant officer program directly.

There is nothing wrong with army aviation, however if you are wanting to be a commissioned officer and fly, the army will limit the amount of time you spend in the cockpit past O-3.

Don't just go one way or another becuase one is the shortest distance. Look at what your goals are and then see which service/program will aid you in attaining all the goals, not just 1 or 2.

Also if you are almost finished with high school, I believe you are out of the window to apply for ROTC and the Academies. So you might want to look at the college program route if ROTC interests you, as well as all the other routes.

 

[matthans]

I dont think there is anything wrong with army aviation. But you might want to look a a little more closely at the different ways this path could take you. For one, you are entering the military right out of highschool and therefore will not be an officer. right away that puts you at a disadvantage. Another problem is that you are signing before you get your flight slot. I admit i am ignorant as to the army's policy on flight slots, but as far as i know, they do not guarantee them. therefore, if for some reason you do not qualify for flight training (say you dont test well or something like that), or fail out of flight training (not saying you would) you would still be committed to service in the army. You might even decide that you dont really want to fly. I have been in flight training at college for 3 years now and i have seen a bunch of people quit at every stage of flight training. sometimes it just doesnt turn out like you expected. if you go the route you proposed, you limit your options as far as this is concerned. finally, think about what you want to do when you leave the military. granted, you may decide to stay in until retirement, but again, consider the amount of options you have if you take this route. Helicopter flying is awesome, but outside the military there are not many jobs and turbine helicopter flight time does very little to help for fixed wing time. in other words, if you cannot find a job as a helo pilot, your helicopter time will not help you get a job as a fixed wing pilot. I strongly encourage you to try and go to college before you join the military. It will give you more time to think about your decision, more options, assuming you go in you will be an officer, and most importantly you will have a well rounded education to fall back on. There a numerous colleges and universities that have flight training programs. I am St.Louis University and working on my commercial liscence right now. It is a great school and one of the top 4 flight programs in the country. I plan on going into the navy upon graduation. Good luck with your decision, and before you make it, ask as many people as you can for advice (not counting recruiters)so you can get a good idea about what you are getting into... i think youll find that almost everyone has something different to say, and the truth is somewhere in between.
matt s.

 

[JKD]

I went through a reserve training class with an O-3 who transferred from Army aviation to Navy Intel (He was a Kiowa Warrior pilot). One of the differences he mentioned was the lifestyle while forward deployed. Army will be in tents out in the field, just like other Army components. Navy will land on the ship every night and have a mostly hot shower afterwards (even if it does have a slight smell of JP5 jet fuel...)

 

[Jreb892]

Before today I was planning on going to college and going through ROTC. My plan was based on lots of research, and talking to close friends and family in the military about my plan.

Earlier today I got a call from an Army recruiter. Usually I don’t really take them too seriously, because I used to think of going enlisted in a very negative way. I was going to tell him I am not interested, but he managed find out I want to fly.

I can request my contract to have the “Warrant Officer Flight (WOFT) Packet”. I can get this if I get high enough scores on the ASVAB and AFAST, pass the flight physical, and pass an acceptance board. After I get the packet in wrighting I would sign a contract and start the training.

I don’t remember the specifics, but I know I can get free degrees when on active duty in the army. I have heard that it takes longer though. A four-year contract could take over 6 years. So it would be over six years before I could go through OCS, but I would be a warrant officer most of the time.

If all went as planned, about 16 weeks into the army I would be a WO-1. I would be making over $25k a year. I would get more money for flight pay too. (BTW how much is flight pay) I know ROTC gives you money (Other than scholarships), but I hear it is a lot less. I know the Army would also give me at least 5k as a sign on bonus.

I know I could drop out of the program and be stuck enlisted, but the same thing can happen with ROTC.

WOFT route:
*$25,000+ a year
*Sign on bonus
*Flying in under two years
*Free (or cheap) degrees
*Officer status
*Possibility of OCS in 6 years

"Warrant officers are highly specialized, single-track specialty officers who receive their authority from the Secretary of the Army upon their initial appointment. However, Title 10 USC authorizes the commissioning of warrant officers (WO1) upon promotion to chief warrant officer (CW2). These commissioned warrant officers are direct representatives of the president of the United States. They derive their authority from the same source as commissioned officers but remain specialists, in contrast to commissioned officers, who are generalists. Warrant officers can and do command detachments, units, activities, and vessels as well as lead, coach, train, and counsel subordinates. As leaders and technical experts, they provide valuable skills, guidance, and expertise to commanders and organizations in their particular field."
(Para A-3, Field Manual 22-100)

 

[PU Grad]

You may want to ask some specific questions from the recruiter:

How easy it is to get a degree while a Warrant Officer in the Army. How many people get their degree? What is the typical amount of time to get a degree (both long and short estimates)? How early into the career can you begin to get a degree? How many Warrant Officers with degrees get selected to become Officers? If you stay as a Warrant Officer what is the maximum pay? How long after getting your wings are you required to serve? When do you receive your enlistment bonus? What happens if you drop out of flight training?

Please note I have no idea of the answers but the answers may help you in deciding.

(Not entirely sure on this but here goes)
If you drop out of ROTC (for your own reasons) you are only required to pay back the money that was given for education. If you get separated from the Navy after getting commisioned b/c they have no open slots for you, you don't owe anything.

Someone else may be able to shed some light about ROTC.

Kobyra

 

[Ryoukai]

On an unrelated note, does the Navy limit cockpit time after a certain rank?

 

[cricechex]

The WOFT program in the Army is indeed enticing. I recently applied for it in July '03, but did not make it. I got an 85 on the ASVAB, 119 on the AFAST, and passed every board except the final review at Fort Knox.
In response to the issue about school, what I have learned is that each branch of the service is entitled to the same benefits. 100% tuition while on active duty. As a warrant officer in the Army, you would be encouraged to complete a degree. I've been told that noone is even promoted to a CW4 without one. Ofcourse, there are always exceptions to the rule.

The program is pretty competitive. In general the services would rather promote from within where possible, meaning that the enlisted guys get first shot at the program. (Probably the reason I was not accepted).

One important thing to keep in mind though. The Army allows enlisted personel from the other branches to apply! This means that you could enlist in the Navy and start applying for the STA program, and keep the Army as a backup. This is what I have decided and has allowed me to go for the gold, ie. Fly Navy! while keeping the doors open with the Army. By the way, don't consider the Air Farce because they won't let you pick a job. "You'll take what we offer you," the recruiter told me. This even includes their commissioning programs. You won't be garaunteed aviation as the Navy does.

Fly Navy!
cricechex

On the unrelated note, You won't see an Admiral in the sky's over Baghdad! You would see a CW5, though.

 

[Fatboy]

If I would of been a good high school student under the current Army warrant officer program I would go for it. They allow guys right out of high school to go to WOC school and then straight to the army flight school. Granted most of the guys there are prior enlisted but there is a way to get there out of high school. Its also not uncommon for Army line officers to go from O2 or O3 to become a warrant officer becuase of the amount of flying.

The army warrant officer world is different than the Navy's. They have thier own "culture". As a W-1 you aren't actually a commissioned officer until you make W-2. Its a different world. And a W-5 is near god status.

Thier training program is so different from the Navy's. They fly nearly everyday. For those of us in primary we know how rare that is. However, when they are not flying they are in classes. 1/2 day in classes and 1/2 day at the flight line. Sometimes it switches between morning and night. They're entire primary is focused on the landing pattern and EP's. Mostly taking EP's to the ground. Then once you finish thier version of "intermediate" (instrument stuff) you move to advanced. Here's where it gets crazy and I don't totally understand it. They have two programs, the regular route and flight 21. Depending on the airframe you select you might do advanced training entirely in your airframe or you may continue the manuever portion in another aircraft (like I said I don't totally understand it). Its amazing to me how much time they spend on helos alone compared to us.

 

[TNWhiskey]

Just a couple things to consider Jreb...

Things on the enlisted side of the military seldomly care about you the individual and what you want...Furthermore, the time line you mention is a best case scenario...I don't know the ins and outs of the program, but I would guess that best case is hardly the case.

More importantly, if you want to fly I would go to college and become an officer...Whether its Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marines you only live once and college is something you'll look back on and wish you'd have experienced. I went to college with a bunch of friends my freshman year, but had to move back home and go to a smaller, less expensive school to finish my degree...Looking back I wish I'd saddled the debt because experience an important time in your life with friends is huge. Maybe I'm sentimental or co-dependent, etc, but just something to think about.

If you can go ROTC, PLC, or whatever and have the government pay for you to get an education (hang out with your friends) I would do it. I'm going NFO Marines, but I would tell you that going Navy is the best way for you to get into an aircraft. A friend of mine went AFROTC and got pilot, but he was 1 of 2 in the program at the school that got a slot...(and it is a big AFROTC school). So what someone said above about AF is true from my experience...Just my .02. Good luck in whatever you decide...making the decision to serve is a commendable decision regardless of the path and branch.

 

[EA-6B1]

I agree with TNWhiskey. I'd go to college and learn the ropes, man. You'll screw up and make mistakes, but you'll learn. That's how it goes. I'm wrapping up my first semester of my Junior year, and I'm glad I decided to come to school. Is it always fun? Uhbuh! No. I'm studying for an exam as I'm writing this, but is flying always fun either? No. But they're both satisfying, and that's what matters. When you look at yourself, and say 'I'm proud of what I've accomplished.' That's satisfaction. Just my thoughts, and those thoughts are to be taken as one's own. Good luck in whatever decision you make. Remember, you're making a decision to serve your country which most people your age decide not to do. I commend you for that. God Bless.

 

[DBLang]

Best of all college is a BLAST! Nothing excites me more than class followed by hitting the books for six hours.
Seriously though, I've had a lot of good times already, and I'm a freshman. OC sure isn't my beloved Santa Barbara though...

There is nothing wrong with Army aviation, being enlisted, being a warrant officer, etc. You're going to have to think everything through and decide what you want and where you want to go.

 

[spsiratt]

Just to clarify an earlier post... AFROTC won't guarantee aviation, but if you're applying directly to AFOTS they will. You list your top 3 choices on AF Form 56, just like you do for Navy OCS. If you get selected for pilot, nav, or ABM, you're in with an aviation contract. But I wouldn't recommend the AF. Go Navy!