Is there something wrong w/ Army avation?

[bobbybrock]

Patmack 18,
Maybe you skipped the two previous pages. I'm an active duty CW3 H-60 driver and I've stated the difference b/t being a warrant and regular officer. And you don't have to enlist to get flight training. Many recruiters are not willing to go through the b.s.. It is very possible. I did as did many of my squadron mates. You just need to be persistent. Enlisting and going that route is a crap shoot. Your friend who is enlisted is problem the norm. Many guys these days are deployed and have to wait till they return to finish their application .
As I stated in a previous post Warrants do about 90% of the flying. Your friend who is now 0-1 can atest to that. He might fly as a PLT LDR , but that is about the most flying he'll do. Then for the next 5 years he'll serve on BN and BDE staff.
Army aviation does things much different than our sister services. And we have problems. I'm sorry but your friend in Iraq really lacks any type of experience to tell you anything about the aviation branch. And your uncel was probably in when things worked. But as a CW3 IP with over 2500 hours, I think I'm more then knowledgable on the workings of the Army Aviation Branch.

 

[Q-ball]

Bobbybrock,

On a different note, do you know if the Army is lookong at buying a 60 not similar to the Navy's new MH-60 romeos an sierras? Or are they just going to upgrade the current airframes?


Q

 

[bobbybrock]

Q-ball,
Right now the army has plans for the H-60M. I'm thinking it is similar to the MH-60. It is based of the H-60L with some major modes. A full glass cockpit with coupled auto pilot.We'll also get and RNAV package. Our current instrument package consist of a LOC,VOR and NDB reciever. Our external load will go from 9000 to 10000. It will also have a new wider cord line blade. Plus folding stabilator and rotor brake.
All of these airframes will be older alpha and lima models with a certain lot being made from the ground up. I had a buddy in on the ergonomics of the cockpit and he said it was based off the Hellinic Navy's H-60. My game plan is to be out within the next year. So I probably won't ever see it. Fielding is to begin in 06.

 

[Vic]

Hey Cheif,
I'm going throught primary at Moody AFB. May be we can have lunch when I fly out to Savanah in the next couple of months.

 

[bobbybrock]

Vic,
What are you flying out of Moody? If in town give me a call.

 

[Rage6]

Woft

Warrant Officer Flight Training is where I am going. I have known my WHOLE life that I want to fly. Before i joined the service, i did some reasearch in ALL of the branches as far as flight goes. to fly in the Air Force, you literally have to wait for someone to die or retire to get a flight position, most people in the air force are mechanics/ technicians. the MOST flight positions are in the Navy, however, you need a bachelors (4 year) degree to be eligable for flight. Marine flight is the same as the Marines are a sub-division of the Navy. when I went to look at flight for the Army i laughed and thought "Army flight, eh. reletivly non existant" I was surprised to find that there is a SHORTAGE of Army Pilots because they have so many positions available for Apache, Black hawk, Chinhook and Kiowa Warrior pilots. I found out about the Warrant Officer Flight Training school. you can become a commissioned Warrant Officer and have a flight position RIGHT OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL, however there are VERY SPECIFIC qualifications. only .01% of people that apply for WOFT right out of high school make it. generally college and/or previous flight experince and/or previous military experince helps. so, I joined the Army, an MOS that has good college benifits. and I am going to get an associates in helicopter Science and do a couple years of ROTC. this will MEGABOOST my chances of getting accepted to flight school. however not everyone makes it still. Have a back up plan. some other things you would like to do in the Army and cross your fingers.

there is NOTHING wrong with Army Flight. in fact, its the best oppertunity available. stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[bobbybrock]

Rage6,
Since you haven't spent day one in an army cockpit, I think you have very little room to talk of the branch.
Yes it gives opportunities to those who might not have had them. But you'll find if and when you get in, that it has many faults.
I've served as an H-60 pilot for some time. And as I look around me I see one thing. More and more pilots ( commisioned & warrant ) are getting out. Why might that be? Think about it.

 

[phrogdriver]

The Marines are not a "sub-division" of the Navy. We are a co-equal branch of the Department of the Navy, which is not the same thing.

.01% get in out of high school for WOFT? So 10,000 guys applied and 1 got it?

I don't mean to be an ass, but an "Associates in Helicopter Science?" Shoot, I think I have the equivalent of a masters in helo science. That and 50 cents might get you a cup of coffee. Buying civilian helo time is pissing your cash away. You'll go a lot further pursuing a fixed wing private, instrument, etc. Every helo hour costs much more than the same time in a f/w.

 

[bobbybrock]

Phrogdriver,
I concur. One tenth of one percent sounds a little low. Back in the early 90's my class of 20 was around half and half. Ten prior service and about ten just out of college. Only one guy of that group didn't have his degree. But the number aren't anything close to 01.%. I dodn't even think it is that low for army guys looking for a NTPS slots.

 

[Rage6]

bobbybrock, phrogdriver,

you are correct, full commission officers and Warrant officers are getting out. however, not everyone has the same mission in life. some people may use the WOFT program as a stepping stone. some may find it to be not quite that they thought it to be. i think you owe the Army a little more credit than you're giving them. they're not the premire Air Force of this nation, they are the premire ground force. the Air Force is the premire Air Force, hence the name Air Force. and still yet, the Navy has more planes than the Air Force. Considering that, i think the Army is doing a mighty fine job. it is said that an Apache has equal power as 20 tanks. i havent seen the numbers or statistics with my own eyes, it might just all be hear-say.
Some use Army Flight for more than just one purpose. try and think a bit more broad than that.
Also, back off of the fact that I havent "spent a day in an Army cockpit." I've always wanted to fly, and I may make a career out of this, or i may use it as a stepping stone to progress. you all need to just back off of me a bit. and i believe that is the correct statistic about the WOFT applicants out of high school. i could be wrong, no one is perfect. and an associates is a good start, wouldnt ya say? after i get my associates i will apply for WOFT. if i am rejected, i will stay with my current reserve unit and do a couple more years of college and go for a Bachelors, then apply again, and if still rejected i will keep working to progress. it might be alot of money but thats why i chose an MOS that gets me good college money. and yes, the Marines are a part of the Navy. I still give you guys an "OO-RAH" for kicking hard core ass!

In conclusion, I think Army Flight IS a good program. however, EVERYTHING has room for improvment. Army Flight is not void of that fact, it could use improvment as well as everything else. also, yeah, I dont have much experience. however, im taking my life that currently holds nothing and going as far as i can with what i have at my disposal. dont shoot down a pre-basic, alright. i havent even been skin deep into the military. i havent gone to any college yet, and i have very little flight experince, however i do have some. so its a start. so dont be so quick to steal someone's thunder. you've no idea my reasons for doing anything that im doing, let alone the officers getting out of Army flight. perhaps they found a better oppertunity?

and yeah, i like that quote, "helos dont fly they beat the air into submission."

 

[Rage6]

P.S. Give me some credit for TRYING to go somewhere in life as opposed to the no where I am right now. and congrats for being an H-60 pilot, that would make you an officer. right, Sir?

 

[BigWorm]

That’s not a college kid; it’s an Army recruiter in disguise. That is the exact same pitch I got at age 17. He told me how enlisting with an MOS involving aviation maintenance would look so good on a pilot application, because then I would be able to do a field expedient fix should it go down….the only thing he couldn’t guarantee me was 6 months on a boat…blah, blah, blah. It’s a good thing my HS rugby coach was a Marine SSGT, he laid the smack down on him.

Either a recruiter, or just someone without the spinal column to stand up to the recruiter’s sales pitch – votes anyone?

If I am wrong with my presumptions, then it would be in your interest to be a little more respectful. They weren't layin the smack on, they were correcting misinformation. People come to this site for information and rather than telling someone with the t-shirt what’s up, you’re wrong, my recruiter told me everything, then I would ask questions – I’m sure they would be more than happy to help. You would never hear a student pilot talking like that to an instructor – and that’s an officer to officer relationship, not a pre-basic kid telling them to back off. Keep up that attitude and you’ll have some fun at basic!

 

[VetteMuscle427]

He might have a spinal column.... not sure about the brain that it is supposed to lead to though. He sounds like an emmotional kid out to take on the world.

 

[Kycntryboy]

To think when I was in high school I was a signature away from signing my life away to the National Guard because I wanted to get my college paid for. I would be training in TX to be a Tank mechanic right now. (So I would be based in Ft. Knox, where I lived) Man oh man what 2 years and some guidance will do.

 

[VetteMuscle427]

To think when I was in high school I was a signature away from signing my life away to the National Guard because I wanted to get my college paid for. I would be training in TX to be a Tank mechanic right now. (So I would be based in Ft. Knox, where I lived) Man oh man what 2 years and some guidance will do.

In current times... "National Guard Tank Mechanic" could come to mean "Improvised Active Duty Military Police"