Is there something wrong w/ Army avation?

[andrew]

Bobbybrock
I Just had a quick question. I graduated from college with the intention to fly Navy. I was even selected but was DQd from SNA to to LASIK. Luckily a close family friend (Admiral) got my ass out of the process before it was to late and I would have been in the military possibly doing something which I did not want to do. Any how, 3 years have gone by since this I am 24. about 5 months ago an Army recruiter contacted me about the WOFT program and said that they would possibly waiver the LASIK. Long story short they did. My package just got approved at the batallion level and I should know at the first of the year if I will get the final aproval. Furthermore, I fly fixed wing now. Doing some charter work and flying for the corporation that I am a sales representative for at the present time. I had not even been in a helicopter until this past sunday I paid to go on a flight in New Orleans. I must say that I loved it. I thought it was even better than flying fixed wing at the time. Anyhow I just wanted to know your opinion on my situation. If I do get accepted at this point I am 100% going. I have talked to everyone that I know who has flown in the Army and they all say I should do it but they also remind me that it is not the same as the Navy, AirForce, Marines. These individuals have been my relatives and some friends of a friend. They have mainly been black hawk, appache, pilots and 1 fixed wing pilot. I know you cant tell me what to do based on such little info. and also the fact that the decision is mine. I just wanted to know if you could do it all over again would you. Also, remember that as far as military flying this is my 1 and only choice do to the LASIK. But I do have over 600 hours fixed wing and my CIME ratings which I could just stick to civilian flying with. But the military has been my dream for about 5 years now.
Thanks and sorry to ramble, kick the tires and light the fires.

 

[Q-ball]

Phrogdriver pretty much spelled it out. I'm in a 53 squadron and it's set up pretty much the same way. Except due to dets we have a lot less Majors than normal (our OPSO is a Captain), so the company grades are pretty much running the squadron. As far as when you qualify for HAC, OPNAV states that you need a minimum of 500 aircraft hours before you can be considered for HAC. All of the other designations are pretty much up to the squadron as to when you are eligible.

Q

 

[bobbybrock]

Q-ball & 46driver,
Thanks for the info. Just curious, about how many guys(pilots)work in each shop? And are they generally the line pilots who fly the missions or are they considered staff?
Andrew you're actually in a situation that was very similar to mine. Minus the lasiks. I had just graduated from college and was working as a sales rep. I wanted to fly and had dropped the ball in college when I turned down PLC. I graduated in the early ninties and things didn't look to good in the DOD. I finally stumbled across the army. I've enjoyed my time as an aviator. There are many things I dislike about army aviation.My game plan that was in place was to tranfer to the Coast Guard. That fell through when the army stopped lossed me. But having my degree gives me many options. That is by far the best thing you will have going for you. My advice is to chart you career very close. Set yourself up to go to another branch if things aren't what you expected. Also the army has a special ops side that is controlled by SOCOM . Things there tend to be a lot better then in the regular army. Also after a two to three years you can apply for the MEFWQC ( fixed wing course ). This is very competitive but it is a totally different world. You either fly VIP's or elecronic servallence. A lot of people don't realize that we have a fixed wing fleet. We fly mostly C-12's(king Air), U-35 (citation), RC-7( Dash 7) and the prize, gulfstream 4's. i think we have some 5's on order.
I guess I'd do it again if I used all my resource. Look into the other branches and if you haven't already, look into the army guard. This is an option that few people realize is out there. If you like the guard you can then come on active duty. If you have any other questions feel free to e-mail me at bobbybrock@hotmail. Also I have my flt physical tommorow. I'll ask the Doc about lasiks just to make sure. Take care.

Bobby

 

[46Driver]

Bobby,
The only officers who are not pilots are the 2,3, or 4 warrant officers who work in admin, maintenance admin, and avionics. There is also usually another officer (lt or capt) who works as a maintenance controller and occasionally we will get a specialized intel officer. Every other officer is a pilot who runs missions. As for the number of pilots in each shop, it ebbs and flows depending on manning - and CH-46E squadrons double in size when they go composite and attach to the MEU.

 

[andrew]

Bobby-
Thanks for the info & I am going to send you a email. Thanks

 

[TNWhiskey]

Andrew how is it that the Army waivered LASIK? Does that limit you to Helo's only?

Also, 46 or phrog do the Marine WO's fly like Army WO's or is int only 0-1's and above?

Thanks.

 

[phrogdriver]

WO don't fly. Commissioned officers only for pilots and NFOs. We have enlisted NAVs on C-130s, but I understand those are going away as the new C-130J comes in. All Marine warrants are prior enlisted sergeants and above in select fields that need specialized leadership.

 

[andrew]

TNWHISKEY-
This is what I know. The Army is accepting aviation applicants with LASIK. I had to go to Ft. Rucker and get a class1 flight physical along with special test on my eyes. Then after this a flight surgeon at the base had to approve this LASIK pending it being waivered. After I got together all of my pre and post surgery records and put this together with my flight physical my medical package was sent to the department of the Army (washington) and after about a month and a half they sent word that I was approved. Also, they tell me that they are accepting 100 applicants for this study, but from what I have heard no one has been denied unless there eyes were not within limits before or after the surgery. As far as the fixed wing flying I believe that no one goes into Army Aviation with the complete intention to fly fixed wing. But they do have a fixed wing program but from what I understand you fly helis for at least three years prior to being able to apply for this program. Also, I hear it is very competitive. As far as the LASIK it would not be a problem. This fixed wing flying does not involve air to air combat mainly exec flying and surveilence. I hear its a pretty nice way of life. Anyhow, I have all the names and contacts about the LASIK if you are interested I would be happy to help you all I can. Because everybody on this site has been super helpful to me and I would like to return the favor.

 

[bobbybrock]

46driver or Phrog,
I was curious as to how many majors are in a sqaudron? I was also curious as to how you guys select IP's and I imagine that most of the IP's are senior 0-3's or 0-4's? Plus would an IP also hold say the XO or S-3 slot also?

 

[phrogdriver]

We had 4 or 5 majors, until we plussed up for deployment, which would triple the size of the squadron.

The CO usually has a couple of mid to senior captains do most of the checkflights for instruments and NATOPS, though many COs like to do that kind of thing themselves. The tactics and goggle IPs are usually captains with a deployment or two under their belts. The majors have the IP quals, but don't run very much of that training.

The Marine Corps doesn't have a true IP cadre system, other than the Weapons and Tactics Instructor course, to which each squadron sends a couple of guys a year. Most pilots will get at least a TERF I qual, and the better ones usually Night Systems. However, the captains who are the players in the squadron do most of the instruction of junior pilots. The majors generally don't do a lot.

Clear as mud? Each squadron CO has a lot of discretion as to how he is going to designate IPs. Some give quals like candy, others very few. The only ones he can't designate in-house are NATOPS evaluator, NSI, DMI, and WTI.

 

[bobbybrock]

Phrogdriver,
Clear as mud. Just trying to get fix on how you guys do things. I know the way you do thing is pretty much the norm in Naval as well as air force aviation. I guess the Army just has to be different. As you might imagine all our IP's have to be trained through USAVANC (Rucker).
All unit IP's are CW2's and 3's. We are qualed in all flight modes and will serve as IP's throughout our careers. Must seem as odd to you as your sytems does to us. Case in point. Our new major (only two at battalon level) told me today he hasn't flown a blackhawk since 95. Pretty hard to lead from the front when you're one of the most inexperienced guys.

 

[phrogdriver]

I like the fact that your warrants get to stay flying most of their careers. On the other hand, when a LtCol has much less flying experience than those under him, it must warp the relationships a bit. I think ideally that we'd adopt a limited duty officer program, where those Os that wanted to stay solely in the cockpit could stay there forever at O-3 and below, serving as the primary unit IPs, and those future COs would still alternate between flying and non-flying billets.

Both systems can learn a little from the other, but it's insane that a pilot at a line unit hasn't flown in 8 years.

 

[bobbybrock]

Phrogdriver,
Yes the limited duty question has come up many times. And you're right it is hard to respect a guy who writes your fitness report and has 2000 hours less then you. The system does create problems. You get very proficient pilots. But on the flip side you get very inexperienced command types. I guess this is why I'm so intrested in your way of doing things. Oh, and that 0-4 who hasn't flown since 95, well that's no problem. You see he's what we call a fact three aviator. His only flight time will come in the sim. He must fly 20 hours annually and take an instrument ride. Not much help when your deployed and short line pilots. That is where are staff guys differ. I'm sure that most of yours are HACs and very experienced.

 

[cricechex]

Neo, You made a good point about an Admiral and a CW5. How about an 0-6?
Also, that is pretty cool that the even let an Admiral in the flight seat.

 

[bobbybrock]

Yes, I think comparing an Admirl to a CW5 is apples and oranges. Now find an Army 0-7 or above flying and that would be a impressive. I flew escort for a 0-9 who got to fly on a gunnery range. He was an Armor Officer who hadn't flown a helicopter since god knows when. I haven't even seen the head of our brahch, an 0-8 ever fly.