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Law after NFO?

C

Crowbar

New Member
None
Clux4 said:
The 4402 field is hurting right now so they will be opening the flood gates to even things out.
Click to expand...

I heard something completely different.

Not too long ago a Marine came to me and asked me for advice on getting commissioned and becoming a lawyer. I asked one of my buddies, a Marine officer and a lawyer, who had the following to say:
"My OSO told me that he needed so few lawyers that he did not have to actively recruit them (he just waited for us to come to him)."
"We presently have more lawyers in the corps and in the pipe-line than we rate"
"the monitor has no place to put us."

I'm not in that field so I don't have first hand information, but he didn't paint a very pretty picture for law applicants.
 
Clux4

Clux4

Banned
Crowbar said:
I heard something completely different.

Not too long ago a Marine came to me and asked me for advice on getting commissioned and becoming a lawyer. I asked one of my buddies, a Marine officer and a lawyer, who had the following to say:
"My OSO told me that he needed so few lawyers that he did not have to actively recruit them (he just waited for us to come to him)."
"We presently have more lawyers in the corps and in the pipe-line than we rate"
"the monitor has no place to put us."

I'm not in that field so I don't have first hand information, but he didn't paint a very pretty picture for law applicants.
Click to expand...

How long ago was this? I will not bet my pay-check on this but ..........
 
m26

m26

Well-Known Member
Contributor
There are more lawyers than legal jobs in a good year, and the profession is hurting right now, so I wouldn't be shocked. And now that you mention it, applications are supposed to be up across the board.

Still, I seem to recall hearing about the Corps needing lawyers from a few sources, too.
 
m26

m26

Well-Known Member
Contributor
LEP and general JAG accessions serve two different purposes. SEP and ADP take current JAGs and move them into specific openings, according to the MARADMIN.

The ELP is a bit out of place, though, if they are well stocked on JAGs, I would think.
 
C

Crowbar

New Member
None
Clux4 said:
If this is really the case, then this message will not be so. There is no reason to bring more people into the population when there is nowhere to put them. Return on investment is zero.
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It's an annual board. It will still happen even when things aren't perfect in the field. HQMC will just adjust the number of people selected to what it thinks is appropriate.
 
Clux4

Clux4

Banned
Crowbar said:
It's an annual board. It will still happen even when things aren't perfect in the field. HQMC will just adjust the number of people selected to what it thinks is appropriate.
Click to expand...

Negative on that. Not when the population is over as you indicate. There is no policy that mandates that they have to conduct a board every year.

In any case, the RAD message will be out shortly and it will emphasize the need for 4402's. I will tell your friend to call MMOA and talk to the 4402 monitor. Please update us with the response.
 
Clux4

Clux4

Banned
Crowbar said:
My response is "Stop being an idiot." He's a lawyer. He's talked to his monitor. Make sense?
Click to expand...

It does not because I work with his monitor and I am telling you that this is not the case. Unless he is more informed than his monitor :eek:

To the OP. Do as you feel and let the USMC tell you how differently.
 
C

Crowbar

New Member
None
Even if you do work with his monitor, you don't have first hand information of what life is like. You can look at numbers all you like but they don't tell the full story.

Like I said earlier, I don't have first hand information, but I trust the guy feeding me information and it sounds like you do too. An ECMO and a ground supply officer arguing about the law field. WTF?
 
phrogdriver

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
m26 said:
On the Navy side of LEP, their primary concern (according to the NAVADMIN) is how good the law school is. Most LEP folks go to Cornell, Virginia, Duke, etc, to the best of my knowledge. Idk if the Corps is the same way.

Someone mentioned ass-clownery among the funded guys. In the civilian world, a lawyer 3 years out of a Tier 3/4 school is going to be better than the lawyer just out of Harvard Law, especially in practical law (which is what JAGs do in their first assignment). Give it three years, though, and 9 times out of 10 the HLS lawyer will have surpassed the other, even though the latter has twice as much experience.

I would imagine that the idea is that these LEP lawyers are going to go on to do the big contracting deals, etc. While they may not come in and be as good as the other lawyers off the bat, odds are they are more likely to be successful in the high-responsibility tasks down the road.


Clux, does the USMC have a program like the AF's recall to active duty? (http://www.jagusaf.hq.af.mil/EDprgrms/recall.htm)

Seems like a good way to get lawyers. With the current GI bill and YRP, law school would be borderline affordable.

But with private schools costing around $150,000 for a JD, it looks like it would be tough to find people to go straight from law school to the Marines.
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about funded law programs straight out of school. The JAG I was talking to was a senior major (on this year's ltcol board) comparing his PLC-law peers with the funded-law peers and saying the ones who came to the law late were coming up short.

It's not as if the funded-law guys are on some special "genius lawyer" track for special things. They join the "regularly scheduled programming already in progress." Just like any other lat-mover, they go to a new MOS in a rank that gives more responsibilities with less experience.
 
phrogdriver

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
Dammit, boy! Get the car key out of your ear!

He was talking about a comparison among his peers as JAGs who are now senior majors. The ones who joined the Marine Corps as lawyers are better lawyers and are more professionally accomplished than those who did another MOS, did the USMC Funded Law Education Program, and became lawyers that way. Being that he was comparing both groups now at least a few years out of school, I think it's a fair comparison. I don't know how to explain the point, albeit second hand, any more simply.

There are good jobs and bad jobs amongst JAGs, as with anyone else. There's also a couple of defined career paths, but no special fast-track for those out of more competitive law schools.
 
m26

m26

Well-Known Member
Contributor
You laid it out perfectly and I just flat out read your post wrong. What can I say, it's fall break...
 
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