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Letter to Sen McCain RE CBRN use in Syria

jmcquate

Well-Known Member
Contributor
From globalsecurity.org: Further, a number of Soviet naval oilers could also provide underway refueling by the less efficient astern method traditionally used by the Soviet Navy, which required the vessels involved to come to a virtual standstill. This was perhaps less a hindrance than might at first appear, as Soviets provided a preponderance of replenishment and routine maintenance to their deployed units in open anchorages in international waters. True to form, Soviet ships remained at anchor, even when under way.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
It would be interesting to compare the relative efficiency of the two methods in number of pallets and gallons of fuel transferred per hour. When you factor in the ability to continue toward PIM and even carry out flight ops while doing RAS (not normal, but I've seen it done a couple times), one wonders why they would use the astern method. I wonder what our CHICOM friends are doing.
 

Duc'-guy25

Well-Known Member
pilot
Whose assessment is that? Why would they do RAS like that and not alongside as we do? Who is replenishing whom? Why wouldn't they copy our methods? That's what most of our near-peer folks do, right?

This isn't a tow, towing by the stern like that would be incredibly stupid unless there was damage to the bow. Also, you would never tow with a line from each corner of the stern, you would use a single hawser/chain to a bridle. Two lines would make it overly complicated and difficult to facilitate turning the tow as it would have a greater tendency to want to keep going in the original direction due to the lateral resistance from the hull and point of tow.

Its an UNREP, it maybe DIW but they're still underway, so yes, it technically qualifies as an UNREP. The way we do RAS and CONREPS is incredibly efficient compared to how the rest of the world attempts it, and we do it well because we realized the necessity of it in order to actually operate a blue water navy, which as stated above, the Russians never intended for their fleet to be blue water.

My reasoning to why the Russians do it this way because its easy, and doesn't involve high maintenance gear. Its low risk and it gets the job done. They do it at a standstill, unlike our astern replenishment, probably because they're using a far larger diameter hose. When we refuel astern we use a 5 inch hose to a messenger to a buoy. It's not that too much to drag through the water, and usually we're refueling something small like a MCM or PC that can't handle with several thousand pounds of pressure on it from the STREAM rig. When you start getting bigger, you're dragging a lot of hose (and fuel) through the water and there is a larger chance of something in the rig not liking that.

Fuel wise, the least efficient part would be hooking up, after that its limited by hose size and and pump capabilities. My guess is their RAS would probably only take an hour or so longer to pump the same quantity IF, big IF, they actually had this procedure practiced and down well. Pallet wise its probably (even more) painfully slow. It's probably a shitshow every time they do this since neither Vlad or Borris really remembers how the rig goes. You can always tell the difference between a crew that trains for UNREPs and the once that don't. A good ship is alongside promptly and is like clockwork when it comes to getting rigs hooked up and broken down, but I've seen ships take incredibly long if their skipper is afraid of approaches or their deck gang doesn't have their shit together.

Altogether, I don't know why they do it this way, they would be better off throwing some yokohamas over the side and rafting up, but the overhang of the flight deck and superstructure of the tanker probably interferes with that. However, astern like that, they can maintain a constant distance if they have a couple hawsers rigged, which makes tending a highline/spanwire easy.


And there you have it, a Marine talking about ships...
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
Turkey continues to move towards authoritarianism.

The detention of 11 members of parliament from an opposition political party last week marked the latest step in Turkey’s transformation into a de facto dictatorship. For years, the United States has been equivocating about the consequences of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s crackdown on his political opponents. Washington calculated that the destruction of Turkey’s democracy was worth ignoring to ensure Ankara’s support in the fight against the Islamic State. But last week’s arrests are a stark demonstration that this calculated risk has failed in spectacular fashion.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/07/what-happens-in-turkey-doesnt-stay-in-turkey/
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
What we are always trying to avoid. Someone did quite a good (scary) job on a simulated escalation all the way to mushroom clouds.

 

jmcquate

Well-Known Member
Contributor
Sounds like the jet shit the bed (sorry if the "no speculation" rule applies to the Ruskies too). On a side note, I wonder if they have reps in pri-fly.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The story I read had three of the four assigned airframes airborne in a light division. One recovered aboard, one diverted, and the other was lost. If we're speculating, the chances that two of them experienced a midair seems reasonable.
 

Randy Daytona

Cold War Relic
pilot
Super Moderator
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