Likelihood of lateral transfer success: RL(Intel) to URL(Seal)

[jtorres]

What is your definition of "max" pull ups, based on your situps and run you are not close to competitive physically for SEAL, if you don't get picked up by Intel or Supply then apply if you can get all your physical test to be competitive for selection, but then even if you get selected only 25-30% of officers who go to BUD/S actually make it, one reason that percent is so high is that they only pick those who have very high physical scores.

If a person is selected at turns down a spot it is a huge black mark against you.

When I took my mock PFT I did 21 pull ups, and I was told only 20 count. I now understand from everyone's comments that denying a recommendation is looked down upon. I also understand that it is difficult to even get one. I did not know this at the time, as my recruiter suggested that it does not hurt to apply. I did not think about how applying would make me look bad if I turned down an approval.

I just created this post to understand what my next move would be. I ultimately want to be in the SEAL community as an O, and I was figuring out if there is a chance to transfer out of a program I may get selected for. If there was not a chance, then I was just going to wait until next year, and I thought it would be better so that I could just train since I am out of school now so that I can max every part of the PFT. I have no problem with waiting to get what I want. However, now I am unsure what route to take. Is there absolutely no chance I could transfer from either of the communities my recruiter encouraged me to apply for? I did not want to apply for anything other than SEAL at the time. I really only applied because my recruiter told me it would not affect me, and he mentioned that I should because I could try to transfer if I got into one.

 

[jtorres]

The OP will need to DEP-in with a regular Navy job (CS, AT, undes SN, etc.) before he can take the physical screening tests and ultimately be offered a SEAL/NSW contract. @NavyOffRec made a good point that I completely missed upon, the OP isn't close to having competitive scores to being considered for both enlisted and officer SEAL. "Still Learning" isn't the right answer for taking the PSTs.

I am aware that I was not ready for the PFT. I told my recruiter that I would need more time, and I clearly stated that I would wait until the following year. I am just in this predicament now because I was told that applying would not affect my chances in another board. I just made this post to see if I was selected by another community, could I transfer out within two years like other URL designators. I was not implying that I was ready. I just wanted to see what options I have. I am using this time since I am free of obligations to train and gather information.

 

[jtorres]

I agree, if he wanted to be a SEAL then he should have worked for that, but instead he applied for Supply and Intel, so if he gets picked up by one of those boards the SEAL ship has sailed since if you turn down a commission the odds of getting another shot are slim and none, and slim is walking out the door.

Trying to lateral transfer is not a good plan.

I really did work toward it, and I still am. I did not apply for those programs because I wanted them. I did it because my recruiter told me that it would not affect me. I told him that I did not want to, and that I would wait until the next board, but he insisted. I just do not know what to do at this point now. Has the SEAL ship really sailed??

 

[pilot_man]

yes, it is more of a one and done mentality now with the communities, the only one that is forgiving is SNA/SNFO, if a person turns down a spot then tries for SNA/SNFO and they have great ASTB scores they can sometimes get picked up, ASTB is king for aviation.

It is hard to believe that a SEAL board will care that he turned down his chance to be a Supply Officer. That may be the chance he has to take. Write a letter explaining his case to be included in his package and be a PT monster. I wouldn't ever push a guy wanting to be a SEAL into the Supply corp. Shame on that recruiter.

 

[Jim123]

It is hard to believe that a SEAL board will care that he turned down his chance to be a Supply Officer. That may be the chance he has to take. Write a letter explaining his case to be included in his package and be a PT monster. I wouldn't ever push a guy wanting to be a SEAL into the Supply corp. Shame on that recruiter.

I'll sing the cadence, you sing "SUPPLY CORPS!"

One two, three and four
(SUPPLY CORPS!)

First there was the color red,
(SUPPLY CORPS!)
For all the papercut blood that was shed.
(SUPPLY CORPS!)

Then there was the color brown,
(etc.)
For all the boxes they kick around.

Then there was the color green...

 

[FormerRecruitingGuru]

It is hard to believe that a SEAL board will care that he turned down his chance to be a Supply Officer. That may be the chance he has to take. Write a letter explaining his case to be included in his package and be a PT monster. I wouldn't ever push a guy wanting to be a SEAL into the Supply corp. Shame on that recruiter.

There's always more to this post than meets the eye. I'm not yet willing to place all the blame on the OR. For all we know, we probably won't hear the OR's side of the story to make a fair determination.

In the end, if the OP gets PROREC'd for either Supply or SWO, he will face a steep uphill battle reapplying. @NavyOffRec's claim is true and furthermore good luck trying to find an OR who would be willing to work with him.

For @pilot_man , we're not here to use recruiter scare tactics, but rather tell the truth based off experience so he isn't caught off guard or make a decision only to regret it.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

I ultimately want to be in the SEAL community as an O,

This says something, both of the guys I had that went to BUD/S said if they weren't picked up after a few attempts that they would go enlisted SEAL, they do nearly the same job and the same training, it is also a bit easier to go from enlisted SEAL to officer SEAL.

When my guys did their interviews the senior officer asked them if they would consider going enlisted if they couldn't get picked up officer.

 

[Spekkio]

I wouldn't ever push a guy wanting to be a SEAL into the Supply corp. Shame on that recruiter.

The world's not so black and white. When I did OHARP for 3 weeks, there were a steady stream of applicants who wanted to be SEAL, Intel, PAO, human resources, or supply. The typical profile of said applicant was someone who majored in something like History or English and was having difficulty finding employment. With a decent GPA, ASTB score, and passing PRT scores, some of those applicants were guided toward aviation or SWO. Some of them just didn't have the credentials to become an officer no matter which community they applied to, either because of poor GPA, bad ASTB scores, or inability to pass a PRT.

In the case where the applicant is not qualified for SEAL (here due to PFT scores) and most likely never will be, but is otherwise qualified for another community and has expressed a desire to serve as an officer above enlisting as a SEAL, it makes sense that the recruiter would guide him/her to apply for naval service that the applicant is qualified to do and may ultimately find fulfilling. After all, the OP is the one who walked into the recruiter's office knowing that he did not meet the physical fitness standards required to be a competitive SEAL candidate.

The other option is to bluntly say 'thanks, but you're not qualified to be a SEAL, come back when you are' and leave it there, but I think this approach does the applicant and the Navy a disservice.

 

[Spekkio]

I really did work toward it, and I still am. I did not apply for those programs because I wanted them. I did it because my recruiter told me that it would not affect me. I told him that I did not want to, and that I would wait until the next board, but he insisted. I just do not know what to do at this point now. Has the SEAL ship really sailed??

If I had to guess, I would say that your recruiter has had countless applicants who wanted to go SEAL, but 'just needed more time' to get into shape. You're 22 years old and you have less than a year to turn yourself into a college varsity level swimmer if you want your package to be ready for the next board. Can it be done? Maybe. Is your recruiter betting on it? Nope.

The SEAL ship has not sailed, but it may require you to enlist to get there. You have a much better chance of becoming a SEAL O by enlisting than you do by commissioning into another community.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

The world's not so black and white. When I did OHARP for 3 weeks, there were a steady stream of applicants who wanted to be SEAL, Intel, PAO, human resources, or supply. The typical profile of said applicant was someone who majored in something like History or English and was having difficulty finding employment. With a decent GPA, ASTB score, and passing PRT scores, some of those applicants were guided toward aviation or SWO. Some of them just didn't have the credentials to become an officer no matter which community they applied to, either because of poor GPA, bad ASTB scores, or inability to pass a PRT.

In the case where the applicant is not qualified for SEAL (here due to PFT scores) and most likely never will be, but is otherwise qualified for another community and has expressed a desire to serve as an officer above enlisting as a SEAL, it makes sense that the recruiter would guide him/her to apply for naval service that the applicant is qualified to do and may ultimately find fulfilling. After all, the OP is the one who walked into the recruiter's office knowing that he did not meet the physical fitness standards required to be a competitive SEAL candidate.

The other option is to bluntly say 'thanks, but you're not qualified to be a SEAL, come back when you are' and leave it there, but I think this approach does the applicant and the Navy a disservice.

I would have told a person if they weren't competitive for SEAL, I would let them know the standards and that until they could meet the physical standard there really wasn't a need to do anything else except to keep in contact with each other so I knew how things were progressing.

 

[Uncle Fester]

The only officer I've known personally who lat-transferred into NSW was a SWO. But in that case he graduated from USNA during the Clinton era doldrums and would've been selected for SEAL out of the Academy had there been more billets for his class. He was a varsity water polo player at Annapolis and had a stack of 'we would've taken this guy if we could have' endorsements from the Team guys at the Academy. And he regularly participated in a pre-BUDS conditioning program at Coronado (we were shipmates at 32nd St). When he checked aboard, it was already understood that he would be leaving for BUD/S as soon as they could get him a billet. Short version: the Teams guys knew about him and were actively trying to get him in the door. In the end, he got his BUD/S date and last time I saw him he was a successful NSW officer.

OP: your goal of being a SEAL is admirable, but it is not a 'minimum is good enough' community. You need to be crushing the PFA if you want a legit chance at being selected, and as @Spekkio said, you have a year to turn yourself into a high-performing athlete. You're going to need to live in the gym and pool for that year if you want to get from here to there.

 

[AllAmerican75]

Life story

Dude, you basically two options here and you need to decide which is most important to you:

1) You want to be a SEAL and you eat, breathe, sleep, and dream about NOTHING other than being a SEAL. In this case I would tell your recruiter this, and ask to speak to an enlisted recruiter. The SEALs have special enlistment programs available (or at least did) and really take mentoring people into the community seriously. If you do this, becoming a SEAL must be your entire existence. I've had the great honor of leading many Sailors who washed out of BUD/S because they got too cool, too tired, too hungry, too sore, too uncomfortable, etc. Just about every Deck division on every ship has a couple of these guys. The odds are daunting and the dudes that make it through BUD/S are those that want, hope, and believe in nothing other than being a SEAL, so much that they're willing to suffer anything in order to finish BUD/S. If after you become a SEAL, and you want to go to OCS, you will more than likely have the opportunity. The SPECWAR and SEC OPS communities have an affinity for commissioning their boys from within due to the high attrition rate of their training pipeline.

2) You want to be a Naval Officer first and foremost, then continue down your current path and get a commission in Supply or Intel. If you decide you still want to become a SEAL, then perform at a superior level in your community and work towards getting a lateral transfer. I've had the good fortune to know a couple guys who lateral transferred from SWO into the SEAL community; neither made it. Their success in transferring into the SEAL Community is not normal, and earning a lateral transfer is difficult because of quotas for transfers in, quotas for transfers out, and needs of the Navy. That being said, it is within the realm of possibilities, and once you make the decision to do it, it needs to be your focus every waking moment of your life. You will need to become a PT God and maintain sustained superior performance in your day job. That being said, as a Porkchop or Intel Bubba, you may have the opportunity to be assigned to the support unit for a SEAL Team and have access to see how they live, get mentoring from SEAL Officers, and may even get to do cool shit like jump out of planes (I've known 2 Intel officers who have Parachutist Wings because they were supporting the Teams).

Either way, make sure you keep PTing and working hard. The wait for OCS or Boot Camp can be a pain in the ass and drives down morale fast. Also, if you are still interested in the SEAL community, hop on over to http://www.socnet.com/ and do some reading. The dudes over there like to help, but they don't suffer fools lightly and can be a bit grumpy to folks who don't utilize the search function first. Best of luck!

 

[jtorres]

Dude, you basically two options here and you need to decide which is most important to you:

1) You want to be a SEAL and you eat, breathe, sleep, and dream about NOTHING other than being a SEAL. In this case I would tell your recruiter this, and ask to speak to an enlisted recruiter. The SEALs have special enlistment programs available (or at least did) and really take mentoring people into the community seriously. If you do this, becoming a SEAL must be your entire existence. I've had the great honor of leading many Sailors who washed out of BUD/S because they got too cool, too tired, too hungry, too sore, too uncomfortable, etc. Just about every Deck division on every ship has a couple of these guys. The odds are daunting and the dudes that make it through BUD/S are those that want, hope, and believe in nothing other than being a SEAL, so much that they're willing to suffer anything in order to finish BUD/S. If after you become a SEAL, and you want to go to OCS, you will more than likely have the opportunity. The SPECWAR and SEC OPS communities have an affinity for commissioning their boys from within due to the high attrition rate of their training pipeline.

2) You want to be a Naval Officer first and foremost, then continue down your current path and get a commission in Supply or Intel. If you decide you still want to become a SEAL, then perform at a superior level in your community and work towards getting a lateral transfer. I've had the good fortune to know a couple guys who lateral transferred from SWO into the SEAL community; neither made it. Their success in transferring into the SEAL Community is not normal, and earning a lateral transfer is difficult because of quotas for transfers in, quotas for transfers out, and needs of the Navy. That being said, it is within the realm of possibilities, and once you make the decision to do it, it needs to be your focus every waking moment of your life. You will need to become a PT God and maintain sustained superior performance in your day job. That being said, as a Porkchop or Intel Bubba, you may have the opportunity to be assigned to the support unit for a SEAL Team and have access to see how they live, get mentoring from SEAL Officers, and may even get to do cool shit like jump out of planes (I've known 2 Intel officers who have Parachutist Wings because they were supporting the Teams).

Either way, make sure you keep PTing and working hard. The wait for OCS or Boot Camp can be a pain in the ass and drives down morale fast. Also, if you are still interested in the SEAL community, hop on over to http://www.socnet.com/ and do some reading. The dudes over there like to help, but they don't suffer fools lightly and can be a bit grumpy to folks who don't utilize the search function first. Best of luck!

I understand. Thank you for the input. This is very useful!

 

[Spekkio]

I've had the good fortune to know a couple guys who lateral transferred from SWO into the SEAL community; neither made it...

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but doesn't this mean that they were handed a pink slip from the Navy since they now had no job (ie, the SWO community released him and he attrited from NSW)?

 

[AllAmerican75]

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but doesn't this mean that they were handed a pink slip from the Navy since they now had no job (ie, the SWO community released him and he attrited from NSW)?

Somehow they got brought back into the fold of the SWO community. Neither of them are sticking around past shore duty, so I'm not sure how that worked out. I guess, despite our protestations otherwise, we're still hard up for SWOs.