Looking for a female perspective on OCS

[BACONATOR]

I think the point is that the female standard is FAR lower than the male standard. Women (understandably so) bitch and moan about how they are "just as capable" (not arguing for or against that point in this post).

Those two facts are mutually exclusive.

If you're just as capable then have the same standard.

If the standards are different, then ACCEPT that women aren't as physically capable as men.

You can't have both, so which is it? And if it's the former, then we can start arguing about why the standards differ. If it's the latter... then that's a whole 'nother bag of arguments...

 

[ChaplainC]

I have been reading though this thread, lots of good, and interesting things in here.

I thought I would mention a few, if I may...

First, I am in the Air Force, so, a few differences, and I was brought in with my commission already in place before going to OTS (same thing as OCS) for commissioned officers it is significantly shorter, but we have to gain all the same information, and do all the same things. My class had just shy of 270 people in it. One thing I can tell you is that you DO want to stand out, but you want to do it in the right way! First, I got there and did everything I could to be put in the highest position I could. I ended up being the Squadron Commander over 80 other OTS classmates. It took a lot of extra work over and above what I already had to do, however, it also have a lot of extra perks. They gave me a little more time to accomplish the things I had to do. Also I ended up getting a letter put into my personal file stating that I was the best Squadron Commander my boss had ever had, which is nice if you want to be considered for a job that is hard to get, like fighter pilot.

Second, I agree that if you work hard you can make it, just do not be a wuss, do not give up. The entire class and the entire staff had a day (near the end) that we competed against everyone else. The person who did the most sit-ups was a female nurse, she did over 430. The second runner up was a Female staff member who did about 420. Do not sell yourself short just based on gender, females are every bit as capable as males! Physicality is only one very small part of OTS/OCS, the smarts to do well is also very important.

The biggest and best advice I got before I went was simple.

You are going to fail! Everyone fails! The system is disigned to be certain that you fail! They know this, they want this, they do not care if you fail! They care HOW you REACT to failure. I.E. If you get all mad about it the DI will be on you like white on rice, if you just take it, accept it, and make no excuses, the DI will have nothing to pick on you about and they will leave you alone for the most part. Do not fear messing things up while you are there, just get over it, move on, and when you are in my shoes you may miss it like I still do.

Good luck, and God Bless!

 

[Short]

"Also I ended up getting a letter put into my personal file stating that I was the best Squadron Commander my boss had ever had, which is nice if you want to be considered for a job that is hard to get, like fighter pilot."

You know, because that's how we work community and platform selection, service wide.

VT CO: "He's terrible at ACM, got field DQ'd twice and sweats walking up a handicap access ramp, but...he was the best [insert random candidate officer job] ever. Hornets it is!"

Good advice about learning from failure, as most of the young motivators showing up in Pensacola may be unaccustomed to said occurence. Everything else sounded about par for the Air Force course; slightly off or full on weird.

 

[Picaroon]

The person who did the most sit-ups was a female nurse, she did over 430. The second runner up was a Female staff member who did about 420. Do not sell yourself short just based on gender, females are every bit as capable as males! Physicality is only one very small part of OTS/OCS, the smarts to do well is also very important.

That's a shit-ton of situps. In the Navy on our PRTs we do two minutes of sit-ups. How was this arranged? I'm finding it a bit hard to believe that anyone did 430 legit situps in a row without stopping.

Also, thanks for the advice on failure and such... but how do you know that "physicality is only one very small part of" OCS? Ensigns at the recruiting command have always told me fitness will be a huge part of Navy OCS--whenever I talk to one of them or run a PRT with them I end up getting a fair bit of OCS advice. We get trained by Marine DIs. I'm just concerned that some women heading to the Navy will get the wrong impression from your post... but I guess we should see what some of the OCS grads here have to say.

 

[60flyer]

Also I ended up getting a letter put into my personal file stating that I was the best Squadron Commander my boss had ever had, which is nice if you want to be considered for a job that is hard to get, like fighter pilot.

In Navy OCS, nobody will ever know how well you do there. Even if you're first in your class, you get no letter, no documentation. You pass or fail. The ONLY thing that changes is your lineal number. Nobody gives a sh*t what you did there, and it certainly doesn't mean you're going to be a good pilot.

But that's not the point. The point is that females should do just as well as males regardless of the "nice jobs" they get documented. They should do it because it's their job to be just as good and if not for that....for their own pride. Why are people even still debating this??

I was in OCS with 2 other girls, both were NFOs. And both did great for the female standards on the out PRT. So in front of everyone, we all get "good jobs" from the DI. It was F*CKING embarassing. Because those two fell out of runs ALL the time. The guys in our class gave the obligatory "nice job" but you could just see it in their faces how pissed they were. I'll say it again...EMBARASSING to be standing next to them.

 

[HAL Pilot]

One thing I can tell you is that you DO want to stand out, but you want to do it in the right way!

Not at Navy OCS. Standing out will only cause you pain.

 

[Spekkio]

One thing I can tell you is that you DO want to stand out, but you want to do it in the right way! First, I got there and did everything I could to be put in the highest position I could. I ended up being the Squadron Commander over 80 other OTS classmates. It took a lot of extra work over and above what I already had to do, however, it also have a lot of extra perks. They gave me a little more time to accomplish the things I had to do. Also I ended up getting a letter put into my personal file stating that I was the best Squadron Commander my boss had ever had, which is nice if you want to be considered for a job that is hard to get, like fighter pilot.

Maybe this stuff matters in AF land, but in Navy world it means jack shit. Nothing you do at Navy OCS will matter one bit toward your career. No one except you and the people you tell (people who probably don't care anyway) are going to know whether you graduated first, last, or anything inbetween.

 

[BACONATOR]

I have been reading though this thread, lots of good, and interesting things in here.

I thought I would mention a few, if I may...

First, I am in the Air Force, so, a few differences, and I was brought in with my commission already in place before going to OTS (same thing as OCS) for commissioned officers it is significantly shorter, but we have to gain all the same information, and do all the same things. My class had just shy of 270 people in it. One thing I can tell you is that you DO want to stand out, but you want to do it in the right way! First, I got there and did everything I could to be put in the highest position I could. I ended up being the Squadron Commander over 80 other OTS classmates. It took a lot of extra work over and above what I already had to do, however, it also have a lot of extra perks. They gave me a little more time to accomplish the things I had to do. Also I ended up getting a letter put into my personal file stating that I was the best Squadron Commander my boss had ever had, which is nice if you want to be considered for a job that is hard to get, like fighter pilot.

Second, I agree that if you work hard you can make it, just do not be a wuss, do not give up. The entire class and the entire staff had a day (near the end) that we competed against everyone else. The person who did the most sit-ups was a female nurse, she did over 430. The second runner up was a Female staff member who did about 420. Do not sell yourself short just based on gender, females are every bit as capable as males! Physicality is only one very small part of OTS/OCS, the smarts to do well is also very important.

The biggest and best advice I got before I went was simple.

You are going to fail! Everyone fails! The system is disigned to be certain that you fail! They know this, they want this, they do not care if you fail! They care HOW you REACT to failure. I.E. If you get all mad about it the DI will be on you like white on rice, if you just take it, accept it, and make no excuses, the DI will have nothing to pick on you about and they will leave you alone for the most part. Do not fear messing things up while you are there, just get over it, move on, and when you are in my shoes you may miss it like I still do.

Good luck, and God Bless!

A BIG part of Navy OCS is physical fitness. The rest is mindgames. You don't really "learn" much at OCS except customs, courtesies, regulations, wearing your uniform, and other necessities of being an Officer. All the actual "training" we get is in a follow-on school or OTJ. The "classes" we have at OCS are all just another added stressor and EVERYTHING I learned in them was pump-dump and long gone. I sincerely doubt they expect us to retain ANY of it once we pin on the gold bars...

So with the exception of the part about "getting used to failing and not letting it get you down".... your entire post has nothing to do with Navy OCS. Thanks for your info about AF OTS, but really the two are completely different and based on videos I've seen documenting OTS.... not even remotely comparable (not saying better or worse, just completely different).

Are they even allowed to raise their voices at you anymore?

 

[Piacevole]

On another note, I heard a little rumor that the barbers at OCS are no longer cutting females' hair to 3 in. Anyone got the gouge on that? Might save those of us who were planning on cutting our hair short beforehand some trouble.

Does anybody know if this is true? I actually WANT my hair cut off, so if they are no longer cutting it short than I'm going to get it cut before I go. Will I get in trouble for that?

 

[lyricsavvy]

WOW! This thread is still running?! I remember, when I started it, that I got a lot of flack for trying to "separate" the genders, so to speak. Quite a lot of advice out of this, though, really came through during my time at OCS.

For the PT--it is better for you to start as early as possible in your training, and TRAIN WITH OTHERS. My major downfall was running alone--I am never as motivated as when I pass another person while running, and still hear them behind me.
BUT, that didn't happen for a while at OCS. YES, I was THAT ONE. I was the sucky PT-er...and lost a lot of respect from many of the males in my class for that. The thing is, when they were giving 70%, I was giving 110%. I NEVER stopped during a run, and never gave up.
My CDI and CPO saw this--and commented on it on my outbriefs. This is the best advice I can give you--when they tell you to give up, get pissed and yell harder, try harder. NO ONE can get you to DOR except yourself--no one puts a gun to your head and tells you to quit.
I saw so many DOR, who could've easily made it though if they had motivation to do this OUTSIDE their own selfish desires. My motivation was my father...someone else might have the desire to support their buddies, boots on ground.
Find that motivation and cling to it.
ALSO, what changed me was the realization of HOW AWESOME our leaders at OCS are. ALL the CDI's are phenominal people, and should bring about respect in you rather than fear. If you come with the attitude of respect--see them as mentors wanting you to be the absolute best officer you can be, and will train you as such--then you will learn a great deal at OCS.
Did I "enjoy" my time at OCS---no, I hated it. I HATE NEWPORT!!!! Did I form lifelong friendships through OCS? Hell yeah. Was it worth it--MORE THAN WORTH IT.
So kill yourself a little every day in your PT- find an ROTC group by you and PT with them. If your runs feel "good" then you really aren't running.
Good luck, ladies...you must earn your place at OCS...guys aren't given half the slack for sucking as much as the females (and when I say that, it's from your CLASS, not the Class Teams). It's the truth. We have to earn it hella more, because we are the minority. Some men and women think it's best to pick on others in order to deflect from their own lacking. That's the fact, and anyone who tells ya differently is trying to even the playing field. That's not the point. And it isn't sexist, in my opinion--if we think we should have the ability to fight with 'em, we need to show that ability in leadership and pt.
Even though I sucked at PT--I ended up dropping my run time by 5 min 30 sec. I also never sucked at leadership when it was given--this I was told by CDIs as well as CPOs. (I feel I still need to "earn" my commission through leadership and support of my Sailors).
Keep your motivation ahead of you, and your weaknesses behind!
Semper Fortis, ladies!

 

[redmidgrl]

Congrats!

 

[BACONATOR]

hella

Ugh.... Norcal. That's all I had to contribute.

 

[julietfoxtrot]

There is all this debate about us women scoring just as high as the guys when it comes to pt'ing ... what are we talking about, 8 min miles? Can someone give some insight as to how long we should be running X amount of miles?

 

[Spekkio]

Google the Navy prt requirements.

 

[WhiskeyTango182]

I just read this. I thought it was going to be about birth control pills and other lady issues. Hahah. I didn't know these other things were issues I thought it was a standard understood by everyone who considers OCS. Yowza.