From below article it appears that 21 can still hold its own in dogfight:
View attachment MAKING THE BEST OF MiG-21.pdf
View attachment MAKING THE BEST OF MiG-21.pdf
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Making the best of MiG-21
- Thread starter michael82
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Just check their 2 references at the bottom. LOL :icon_part
Try this for an ancient but interesting MiG 21 eval:
http://area51specialprojects.com/video/havedoughnut_technical.swf
Try this for an ancient but interesting MiG 21 eval:
http://area51specialprojects.com/video/havedoughnut_technical.swf
I posted it recently in the "must read books" thread, but there are some pretty interesting narratives of fighting the MIG-21 (and -17/-23) in the book "Red Eagles". It actually sounded a lot like the T-45 in terms of size, turn performance/available G/cornering speed, but obviously with a whole hell of a lot more excess thrust and top end speed.
Yeah one of the things they talked about was the heavier stick forces involved, and the longer stick being needed for leverage. It also mentioned that a lot of the jets had big old rally-racing style white vertical lines painted on the instrument panel so that a pilot could quickly and accurately neutralize the stick for OCF recoveries. Apparently not using coordinated rudder/aileron for rolls would quickly depart the jet at moderate subsonic to supersonic airspeed. Apparently this was a characteristic of the Phantom as well (according to the story, not sure if this was true)
Sorry. Not true about the Phantom.
High-G and high-AOA maneuvering in the F-4 (at least in the Navy) was flown mostly, if not exclusively with rudders, while the stick remained centered laterally and ailerons remained neutral. That produced highly effective, but totally uncoordinated maneuvers.
Many F-4 taught maneuvers – like the pitch-back – were completely uncoordinated. Just stomping on the rudder to the stops without any aileron input, and swapping ends.
And some highly experienced and highly aggressive pilots even used an intentional departure to make a maximum F-4 roll rate turn . . . At extreme AOA and high G, they would purposely move the stick rapidly to the left when they wanted to turn right....... with centered to slightly right rudders, to intentionally depart, resulting in an instantaneous snap roll to the right. It was faster than a more normal rapid turn reversal. And it worked... if you knew what you were doing. :icon_wink
Thanks for the info, and I think I may have mispoken....the manuever they described in the book was doing a full lateral stick deflection roll without any rudder input. Maybe the author/interviewees meant to describe what I quoted from you above.
Guess you do what you have to when you're fighting a 720 per second roll rate A-4, huh? Man, those must have been the days!
I'm trying so hard not to make a "that's what she said" comment here!! Oops..too late.
That sucker is huge
Apart from the switches at the top of the stick, it looks just like the stick in my Yak. I'm guessing the "bike brake handle" on the left side is to actuate the brakes if it has the same function as the Yak.
I've been told the same thing. I believe that the L-29/39 also use that method of braking. I push the rudder bar to the stop left or right, the squeeze the handle to turn one direction or the other. If the rudder bar is centered and you squeeze, both main brakes are actuated for stopping. Sounds like a semi braking on the highway...
Yeah the book mentioned that it was a funny initiation ritual to give the new guys getting checked out a taxi fam and watch them stumble all over the ramp/taxiway like drunks trying to figure it out......before the pneumatic charge in the reservior inevitably bleed off and they coasted off into the dirt without brakes
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