Man accused of pumping jet fuel into his car

[FlyinRock]

A lot of people use 100LL (illegally) for off-road vehicles. If it isn't fuel injected, and doesn't have a catalytic converter, it generally will work. The potential fine is definitely not worth it though. When I worked as a line-man in college at the local airport, we would occasionally get folks who would come over to the self-serve station, pump 100LL into little gas cans, and then leave. More than likely this is what they were doing.....

You can definitely run Jet-A or equivalent in diesel motors. I have also heard that the PT-6 can run off diesel in undeveloped areas (ie on a short term basis) where no JP or Jet fuel is available....anyone else know anything about this?

We ran diesel all the time out of country (Central-South America, Africa) in our turbines including the Allisons in the BE206 and H500. Never noticed any problems with hot section times or performance. Just had to be careful it was clean. I burned 100 avgas quite a bit in my pickup and when it went to 100LL I'd add a pint of 30W oil to 20 gals. No problems there either.

 

[MasterBates]

We ran diesel all the time out of country (Central-South America, Africa) in our turbines including the Allisons in the BE206 and H500. Never noticed any problems with hot section times or performance. Just had to be careful it was clean. I burned 100 avgas quite a bit in my pickup and when it went to 100LL I'd add a pint of 30W oil to 20 gals. No problems there either.

Most (if not all) turbines will run on most any flammable/combustible liquid you can get to pump in and light off.

You CAN run avgas (legally per NATOPS no less) in the T-44 but there are limitations on it.

Without getting to into the weeds, diesel fuel comes in "weights" like oil.

#1 Diesel is Kerosene, which is essentially Jet Fuel
#2 Diesel is what most trucks/cars use
#4 is what trains normally buy, and it works fine in cars, as long as it is WARM out.
#6 is used in Marine applications mostly.

Turbines (and diesels) can run on most anything you feed them. Just some alternate fuels are more trouble than they are worth.

 

[MIDNJAC]

Most (if not all) turbines will run on most any flammable/combustible liquid you can get to pump in and light off.

You CAN run avgas (legally per NATOPS no less) in the T-44 but there are limitations on it.

Without getting to into the weeds, diesel fuel comes in "weights" like oil.

#1 Diesel is Kerosene, which is essentially Jet Fuel
#2 Diesel is what most trucks/cars use
#4 is what trains normally buy, and it works fine in cars, as long as it is WARM out.
#6 is used in Marine applications mostly.

Turbines (and diesels) can run on most anything you feed them. Just some alternate fuels are more trouble than they are worth.

When I was working line, I had to oversee the fuel deliveries we got. One time chatting w/ the truck driver during offloading, he told me that when he delivered kerosene to commercial sites, it left the truck labeled as Jet-A, and entered the tank labeled as Kerosene......though I think they did this to avoid paying a Btu tax or something like that.

That's really surprising to hear that you can run Avgas in a T-44. Do you just need to avoid high power settings?

 

[PropAddict]

^^ It's NATOPS limited to a specific # of hrs (~100, IIRC). I would imagine you'd need a pretty solid excuse for doing it, though, what with Jet A, automotive diesel, and home heating oil so ubiquitous. The servicing manual is pretty extreme, too: it says you need to replace boost pumps, xfer pumps, basically everything that fuel might have touched.

Lots of little transport outfits are having issues getting AVGAS now for their Queen Airs and are having to upgrade to King Airs b/c 100LL is so hard to get at little remote island strips, but Jet A is everywhere.

MB isn't kidding about that "in warm wx" bit. Guy in high school though he was soooo smart running home heating oil in his diesel engine. What he didn't count on was that the sigle digit winter temps in CT would solidify that wax-based red dye the gov't mandates in heating oil. All that money saved, down the tubes. . .

 

[Herc_Dude]

That's really surprising to hear that you can run Avgas in a T-44. Do you just need to avoid high power settings?

I'm pretty sure you can run it in the -34 as well (check your NATOPS maint./servicing section).

The J mod can run on AvGas as well, emergency situations only with some limits of course (I think its 6 hrs). You also have to factor in a fuel boiloff if climbing to high altitudes, giving you a decrease in range. Maintenance will have to look over a number of things before the bird will be up again.

 

[MasterBates]

Home heating oil is nominally #2 oil, which is diesel with dye.

Reason you will have trouble in winter is that "Winter Blend" Diesel is normally cut with #1 (Kerosene) to keep the paraffin wax in solution to avoid "gelling" the filters.

Also, most truckers add an anti-gel to for additional protection. Think PRIST.

 

[phrogdriver]

I was just reading a book,"80 Knots to Mach 2," by an old Navy pilot. He said that the first generation of jets on carriers frequently ran on avgas, as a significant portion of the fleet was still piston-driven. He said that they ran fine, but the turbine blades got coated with a lot of carbon.

I remember an old Huey guy telling me that a UH-1 could "run on Jack Daniels."

 

[MIDNJAC]

I'm pretty sure you can run it in the -34 as well (check your NATOPS maint./servicing section).

Double checked and it actually specifically says that you can't.....just FYI for any other primary studs who are wondering

 

[Herc_Dude]

Double checked and it actually specifically says that you can't.....just FYI for any other primary studs who are wondering

I'm already getting my NATOPS info mixed up ... :banghead_

 

[jazzdude]

Double checked and it actually specifically says that you can't.....just FYI for any other primary studs who are wondering

I've heard it rumored before that AVGAS will work...once. Not in NATOPS, but rumor is its in some maintenance manual for the T-34C.

But I haven't been able to verify it one way or the other

 

[Rg9]

I had an instructor who, as a C-130 guy out in Miramar, used to take all the sumped fuel (JP-8) and run it in his Jetta TDi. Worked like a charm. And he claims to have not bought fuel the whole time he was there.

Just out of curiosity, isn't this illegal? Not using the fuel, but taking it - since it's government property (even though it's waste) wouldn't it technically have to go through DRMO or something?

 

[HackerF15E]

Sumped waste fuel going to DRMO?

 

[Rg9]

Sumped waste fuel going to DRMO?

Well... managed by them or something (not sure how the whole process works). It seemed like one of those "we're throwing this stuff away but you can't take it for personal use" kind of things.

 

[SDNalgene]

I remember an old Huey guy telling me that a UH-1 could "run on Jack Daniels."

You sure that wasn't the pilot talking about himself, and not the huey?

 

[PropAddict]

Just out of curiosity, isn't this illegal? Not using the fuel, but taking it - since it's government property (even though it's waste) wouldn't it technically have to go through DRMO or something?

He said the maintainers who took the fuel samples used a device that looked "like a mayonnaise jar" to sample all the sumps. Then, they just dumped it out. Soooo, my IP went and got a waste 55 gallon drum and a funnel, mounted it to a handtruck, and had the maintainers wheel it out when they did fuel samples.


IDK about the legality of it. I mean, this was the same sqdrn where one of the JO's built a biodiesel refinery in his garage and was getting all the waste oil from the McD's on base, processing it and selling the stuff to all the other guys in the sqdrn for $1 a gallon.