Medal of Honor criteria and award inflation

[Zissou]

A Bronze Star for Valor on the other hand, if you look at the stats the number of those awarded are much smaller and the ones I am familiar with have definitely earned it.

Just because we can award a BSM for Combat Admin Ops doesn't mean we should. I just hope that most people understand when you see a Marine LCPL with COM w/ V, that he certainly did his bit and then some.

On an another note, a colleague of mine did something in 03 that was investigated for two years, in the end he received the Navy Cross.

Everyone I know, E and O, believe without a doubt that he wasn't given the big one because of his behavior on liberty. He has been several pay grades, more than once. I don't think he has a good conduct medal.

Assuming his status as Liberty Risk was the factor affecting his award, how do you guys feel about that?

 

[FLYTPAY]

Can't speak for the Army, but I can tell you that at Al Udeid, anyone completing a command tour without pissing off their superiors got the Bronze Star. Only two did not; one was the finance squadron commander, the other was my boss. He actually pouted over the fact that he was getting downgraded to an MSM and asked me to delete the decoration presentation from his change of command ceremony. The 1 star came down and ordered that all changes of command were to have a decoration presentation, end of story (there's a lot more drama to the story, but that's the concise version.) Even the services squadron commander (services = handing out basketballs and running the chow hall) got a Bronze Star.

I was astonished at some of the awards they were handing out at Al Udeid. Any Muff Vets out there?

 

[PropAddict]

^^^^ I think it's crap. The MoH is NOT an officership or good conduct award. It is for "conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity."

Once.


I think a guy can be a total "fobbit" for 99% of his IA, but then one day, he gets into some shit, risks his life hardcore "above and beyond the call of duty", he qualifies, according to the original intent of the award.

MoH recipients become heroes and role models, but I don't think the decision to award an MoH should be predicated on events outside that one for which the recommendation was written. There are disciplinary channels to handle these other bits. Depriving someone of a deserved award? Heinous.

 

[Flash]

Everyone I know, E and O, believe without a doubt that he wasn't given the big one because of his behavior on liberty. He has been several pay grades, more than once. I don't think he has a good conduct medal.

Assuming his status as Liberty Risk was the factor affecting his award, how do you guys feel about that?

I don't know of the specific case, so I can't say if it was a factor. They appear, from an outsiders view, that they keep a lot fo that stuff out of the awards process for the big awards. If it has intruded, I don't think you will find anyone who thinks it was right. But for the MOH, I would err on the side that it was not a factor. There have been others that did not get it and they had pretty good records.

 

[MasterBates]

Liberty risk status should not mean jack. If you are honorably serving the US, and you meet the criteria for Award X, you should get Award X, not Award Y because you went to mast unrelated to the action in question.

*This is my take for a combat award

 

[GroundPounder]

Let me start off with the fact that I do not regularly read USA Today, but it was hanging from the doorknob of my hotel room today (and all this week). They had an article about this very thing - and it got my blood boiling. Apparently, they convened a panel of experts to include neurosurgeons to look into it. It was the conclusion of the panel that the wound he suffered (a ricochet to the back of the neck) likely killed him instantly, and certainly he wouldn't have been able to accomplish this with his injury.

This is contrary to the FIVE eyewitnesses (only three are required for a MOH), testimony from his battalion surgeons. I guess the sheer force of a 1 lb hand grenade is capable of lodging itself between his body and the ground. QUICK - Arrest Jonathan Papelbon, because he MUST have been the one that threw the grenade.

We better rescind some MOH's after consulting with some doctors...

Can you tell I'm pissed?

Semper Fi, Sgt Peralta, semper fi.

I read the same article, and it made no sense to me. If I read it correctly they contend that his actions could not have resulted from a purposeful act, as his wound would have rendered this impossible. They discounted the witnesses, and based on these findings decided to award a Navy Cross. There are dozens of cases where you can find that people with mortal wounds have performed actions that would be considered " impossible. " To discount the accounts of the others on the scene say happened based on this " medical evidence " is questionable at best.

It seems as if they trying to have it both ways, if Sgt. Peralta did not perform this act, and the grenade just happened to lodge itself under him then why a Navy Cross?

Let me stress that from what I have read on the matter, I fully believe that his actions warrant the CMH, and that it is a shame that he was not awarded the honor that he earned. Maybe this will be rectified in the future, hopefully when his parents are still alive to see it.

 

[Ecureuil444]

It seems as if they trying to have it both ways, if Sgt. Peralta did not perform this act, and the grenade just happened to lodge itself under him then why a Navy Cross?

Bingo.

 

[FLYTPAY]

I don't care if you are on liberty risk. Often times liberty risk is enforced for stupid reasons anyway. If a member of the armed forces takes a grenade to save their fellow soldiers, they deserve the medal.

 

[jfulginiti]

Having to die in sacrifice for the MOH should surely keep all the weenies from trying to get the "coveted" billets that will enable them to add to their ribbon rack. That's what the Bronze Star is for right? I agree with another poster, if there's a way to get the MOH , Silver Star, DFC without out actually having to bleed, I'll bet the AF has submitted the paperwork.

As of March 19, 2008, which was the 5 year mark of the start of OIF, the Army had awarded 58,877 Bronze Stars. Compare that to the Navy at 2,258, Marine Corps at 1,940, and Air Force at 1,881. There is something incredibly wrong with that.

Source: http://www.militarytimes.com/static/projects/pages/tns_5yearsiniraq.pdf

 

[jfulginiti]

There is a big difference between just a Bronze Star and a Bronze Star with a V for Valor. I don't put much stock at all in just a Bronze Star anymore, especially when it seems just about every Army E-7 and above who does a tour in OIF or OEF rates them if they don't screw up. The only ones who don't seem to hand them out like candy are the Marines.

A Bronze Star for Valor on the other hand, if you look at the stats the number of those awarded are much smaller and the ones I am familiar with have definitely earned it.

I agree. Unfortunately, Bronze Star USUALLY equals BS unless it has a V. I know a Marine who was awarded a Bronze Star by the Army but the Marine Corps won't let him wear it.

 

[HackerF15E]

As of March 19, 2008, which was the 5 year mark of the start of OIF, the Army had awarded 58,877 Bronze Stars. Compare that to the Navy at 2,258, Marine Corps at 1,940, and Air Force at 1,881. There is something incredibly wrong with that.

Source: http://www.militarytimes.com/static/projects/pages/tns_5yearsiniraq.pdf

Wow, amazing how the Air Force has polluted that pool with their excessive nominations and awards. Look at that....square in....last place.

 

[FLYTPAY]

Wow, amazing how the Air Force has polluted that pool with their excessive nominations and awards. Look at that....square in....last place.

Don't worry, the AF more than made up for that on their DFC's. AF 269, USMC 96, Army 24, USN NA. And total flight hours were AF 633000, USMC 576000, Army 2200000, USN NA. So I see some disproportionte numbers there.

 

[MasterBates]

When I was in San Antonio last week, there were Airmen in whatever the USAF calls A-school that had more awards than me. For guys who have "gone there, done similar stuff" I tend to see far more awards on AF types. Some are probably AF "Merit Badges" but I have seen some heavy medals for EOT and such awards.

 

[Bevo16]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/29/father-son-both-awarded-silver-stars/

That is a great story. It's about time that the Vietnam vet got public recognition for his accomplishments.

I have a question for you guys about medals.

[background] I have a job where I travel quite a bit and interact with the other services at conferences in DC and pretty much all other major cities. Every Air Force and Army officer above rank of 2nd LT has a bronze star. When I say every one, I mean EVERY ONE of them. On lunch breaks or whatever when we talk about what we really do for a living, they talk about their time in the green zone or how they wasted a year in Kuwait doing next to nothing. You would never guess, because they have a stack of chest candy 5 rows high. [/background]

Has anyone else noticed this? Is a bronze star the Army/AF's end of tour award for spending a year in the desert? Just to be clear, I am not saying that these awards are not earned, THEY TOLD ME that the awards were not earned. One said that he was actually embarrassed to wear his bronze star because he never felt that he was in "combat" but everyone got them because they were in a "combat zone".

How do you guys feel about this? Should the bronze star be awarded for "combat duty" to people who never fired a weapon or had one fired at them? Does giving such a high award for just doing your time in a shitty area cheapen the medals?

Thoughts?

 

[exhelodrvr]

Peacetime awards had certainly been devalued when I was still in (retired in 96); not surprised that it has affected wartime awards, as well.