Midshipman Rank

[BACONATOR]

Maybe it's different on Papa Threes, but there's a lot more blurring of the lines amongst the air crew. Things are still professional as far as who's in charge, but I don't think I've ever used Petty Officer -----, set 4600 shaft horsepower. It's usually more like "hey grabass, set forty six hundo for me when you're done shooting the shit on ICS." Nicknames and callsigns work on the plane, and as long as they don't interfere with professionalism in the spaces I don't think there's a problem with a crew being close. The problems come up when people who may know more than you do about x, y, or z think that their technical expertise overrides your positional authority. You'd be a dumbass not to listen to their advice about the things they know, but the minute they cross into your area it's time to drop the hammer, and the other O's should back you on it.

Naw, that's about how it is in our land too... and how it should be. I'll use a last name or a nickname for an A dub, but first name is unduly familiar (and of course has been specifically addressed and verboten by our front office, as well it should be).

And I'll admit there are times where I don't correct a disregarded salute, and that's on me. My bad for certain. But working on an air force base.... I would be busy ALL DAY walking to/from the NEX/Commissary/everwhere correcting Airmen. Literally 20% of them will salute if you walk by them neutrally. I can get most of them now by staring into their eyes directly with a look as if to say "well??" and most figure it out. Also found that saluting first clues them in and they fumble out a quick greeting and salute.

I just don't get it. If you are working directly around another service, wouldn't it make sense to learn clues on who to salute? Our rank on our flight suits is identical. Bars, oak leaves, eagles and stars are all the same. Gold is Brown, Silver is blue. Can't be that fucking confusing. And even if the uniform is unfamiliar... shiny bars should be a fucking clue, which leads me to believe they honestly are ignorant about saluting officers, or officers of other services or something. I don't get it. Between that and them calling their senior enlisted (not to mention OUR Es too) sir/ma'am... I am clueless.

 

[Swanee]

I just don't get it. If you are working directly around another service, wouldn't it make sense to learn clues on who to salute? Our rank on our flight suits is identical. Bars, oak leaves, eagles and stars are all the same. Gold is Brown, Silver is blue. Can't be that fucking confusing. And even if the uniform is unfamiliar... shiny bars should be a fucking clue, which leads me to believe they honestly are ignorant about saluting officers, or officers of other services or something. I don't get it. Between that and them calling their senior enlisted (not to mention OUR Es too) sir/ma'am... I am clueless.

I experienced the same thing whilst I was at Hurlburt AFB. Though I was walking around in Marpat Cammies, not a bag. Though I will say that the AF SOF guys that I was with were nothing but professional, and when I asked them about why the rest of the AF seemed so lax about customs and courtesies they had one thing to say," Well sir, the further you are from the teeth the closer you are to the asshole." It can be something as simple as the freaking gate guard saying,"Hey, take your sunglasses off for me." To which I replied," How about: Will you take your sunglasses off for me, Sir?" Just because you may be in a position of authority doesn't change how you address someone senior to you. If you are the nugget pilot and the guy in the back is the squadron CO, he is still "Sir" even though you signed for the airplane, as it should be.

But like I said, too many JO's have allowed this to happen and have created a new standard.

 

[BACONATOR]

I experienced the same thing whilst I was at Hurlburt AFB. Though I was walking around in Marpat Cammies, not a bag. Though I will say that the AF SOF guys that I was with were nothing but professional, and when I asked them about why the rest of the AF seemed so lax about customs and courtesies they had one thing to say," Well sir, the further you are from the teeth the closer you are to the asshole." It can be something as simple as the freaking gate guard saying,"Hey, take your sunglasses off for me." To which I replied," How about: Will you take your sunglasses off for me, Sir?" Just because you may be in a position of authority doesn't change how you address someone senior to you. If you are the nugget pilot and the guy in the back is the squadron CO, he is still "Sir" even though you signed for the airplane, as it should be.

But like I said, too many JO's have allowed this to happen and have created a new standard.

You're absolutely right, and I agree. And if I see this (especially a Sailor or Marine), I'll politely correct them. I've been corrected before (when I wasn't paying attention) and I was glad I was. But the air force is ridiculous and I may lose motivation to correct every single person who walks by me like a jackass. I think I need to walk around base with a chief or a gunny for some laughs...

 

[Will_T]

I know its not part of the conversation, but thanks for whoever added my thread to this one, I guess the search function would have been well used here.

 

[nittany03]

Wow. I answered this thread 3 computers ago, sitting in my apartment at Penn State when I was a MIDN 1/C. Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

 

[OUSOONER]

I'm going to burn through 3 computers while I'm still in Primary...if my wife has anything to do with it.

 

[m26]

Wow. I answered this thread 3 computers ago, sitting in my apartment at Penn State when I was a MIDN 1/C. Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

And two wings!

(Wings'? Wings's? )

 

[phrogpilot73]

Wow. I answered this thread 3 computers ago, sitting in my apartment at Penn State when I was a MIDN 1/C. Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

Actually - Holy thread merge, Batman! Post #107 was a new thread just a couple of days ago. It was merged with this thread.

 

[Hawk12]

The two merged topics seemed to have the same topic, but the topic changed.

 

[Will_T]

Yea, i posted something I thought would be useful, but didn't look to see if it had already been posted.
The document I posted a link to is very helpful though.

 

[Spekkio]

I think part of the problem (at how I initially felt) is a brand new Officer is a completely clueless snot-nosed kid who needs a lot of direction. We know this, they know this. On top of that, a 23 year old JG is now in charge of a 28 year old LPO, 30 year old chief etc.... it feels awkward for us. Of course over time we all get over it and learn to have that professional confidence to give orders when shit has to get done. But I think, at first, brand new JOs are a bit tentative and the SNCOs are a bit overconfident and know the "new guy" is gonna be a little meek and uncertain. That dynamic lends itself to the SNCO overstepping the bounds of professionalism. Time fixes that, as with anything else in the Navy.... hard knocks and OJT.

It feels awkward because the training pipeline doesn't teach us the simple day-to-day stuff that'll make us look stupid for not knowing.

PO2: Hey, sir, we need you to review these FWP's
Me: What's an FWP?
*PO2 explains FWP. If he's a good one, he'll explain how to verify it. If he's a shitty one, he'll tell the JO to just sign it.*

Right there the whole command and control aspect goes right in the shitter because I knew nothing about a simple aspect of my duties as a divo. But thanks to that great training, I can do a moboard...cuz THAT's sure useful to me.

However, I will say that the masterchiefs on board my ship are two of the most professional Sailors on board when it comes to interacting with officers. So yea, if someone wanted to "pull rank" on them, I can see why the command would be like wtf is up with this JO?