Military Training Routes

[ea6bflyr]

Fixed that for you. Anyhow, point-to point is easy - just hit the direct button on your FMS thingie.

Brett

No I meant Airspeed. You fly an Indicated airspeed to ACHIEVE a specific Groundspeed....um, great, are we now we are going to talk about wind compensation and the wind triangle. I was trying to keep it simple and basic.

We still to pt-to-pts to boat marshall holding right?

-ea6bflyr

 

[jarhead]

... We can fly an IR as a VR.

out of curiousity & my professional development, where is it written that you can fly an IR as a VR? I know there are routes throughout the States that also have a VR coincident with a IR but not all, and those IR's I have flown required an IFR clearence to get on... as a matter of fact, AP1B says IR ops "shall be conducted on IFR flight plans..."

SF

 

[nittany03]

out of curiousity & my professional development, where is it written that you can fly an IR as a VR? I know there are routes throughout the States that also have a VR coincident with a IR but not all, and those IR's I have flown required an IFR clearence to get on... as a matter of fact, AP1B says IR ops "shall be conducted on IFR flight plans..."

SF

I think what he meant was that one can fly an IR route visually, as opposed to on radar or some other fancy gizmos. In the PacNW, there are IR routes which go down to 500ft AGL, and are flown as standard low levels, with the only difference being that you are up a Center freq with a discrete squawk, as opposed to FSS/4000. I always thought that they were a holdover from Intruder days and those guys practicing "all-weather" attack.

We still to pt-to-pts to boat marshall holding right?

-ea6bflyr

I thought you could use the TACAN Intercept page for that.

 

[ea6bflyr]

out of curiousity & my professional development, where is it written that you can fly an IR as a VR? I know there are routes throughout the States that also have a VR coincident with a IR but not all, and those IR's I have flown required an IFR clearence to get on... as a matter of fact, AP1B says IR ops "shall be conducted on IFR flight plans..."

SF

If the altitude structure supports low level flight, then you can fly it like a VR. I recently flew the IR-126A as a VR. Center said to call them back when we were complete with the route. You keep your squawk and keep your controlling agency up during the entire route. During IR ops, you are still on an IFR flight plan....on VR you are on a VFR plan.

To answer your question:

Unless the route segment is annotated "For use in VMC conditions only," each route segment shall contain an altitude that is suitable for flight in IMC. This shall be referred to as the IFR altitude and may be contrary to FAR 91.177 (Minimum Altitude for IFR Operations). For example, when specifically authorized by appropriate military authority, altitudes below MEA or standard obstacle clearance may be used. In no case will flight operations, be conducted at altitudes less than those specified in FAR 91.119 (Minimum Safe Altitudes; General). In the absence of a specified IFR altitude, it is defined as the top of published block of altitudes.

Another interesting note I found while perusing the AP-1B:

IR MTRs that include one or more segments above 1500 feet AGL shall be identified by three number characters, (for example IR-XXX). IR MTRs with no segment above 1500 feet AGL shall be identified by four number characters, (for example IR-XXXX).

-ea6bflyr

 

[ea6bflyr]

I thought you could use the TACAN Intercept page for that.

Um, I flew an ICAP-II with separate INS & GPS...not sure what you are talking about.....plus with the boat, the TACAN is moving.....unless you can guess where the boat is going to steam, then your GPS is only as good as the input (garbage in = garbage out).

-ea6bflyr

 

[jarhead]

oh, ok, I understand what you're saying... we're on the same page...

SF

If the altitude structure supports low level flight, then you can fly it like a VR. I recently flew the IR-126A as a VR. Center said to call them back when we were complete with the route. You keep your squawk and keep your controlling agency up during the entire route. During IR ops, you are still on an IFR flight plan....on VR you are on a VFR plan.

 

[Brett327]

No I meant Airspeed. You fly an Indicated airspeed to ACHIEVE a specific Groundspeed....um, great, are we now we are going to talk about wind compensation and the wind triangle. I was trying to keep it simple and basic.

We still to pt-to-pts to boat marshall holding right?

-ea6bflyr

Yeah, you definitely fail the nav triangle, TRACOM boy. WRT marshal, there's now a neat-o software change to the CDNU that will do a tacan intercept (I.E. FMS steer to your marshal fix).

Brett

 

[ea6bflyr]

Yeah, you definitely fail the nav triangle, TRACOM boy. WRT marshal, there's now a neat-o software change to the CDNU that will do a tacan intercept (I.E. FMS steer to your marshal fix).

Brett

For a moving TACAN? Wow, so why do we even need ECMO1?

-ea6bflyr

 

[Brett327]

For a moving TACAN? Wow, so why do we even need ECMO1?

-ea6bflyr

Comic relief. That plus you need someone who doesn't sound like a moron on the radios.

Brett

 

[Short]

ECMO1 is also a valuable source for pilot self-deception; i.e. the post bolter "Man, those blind pig-f'rs on the platform f'd us...well, they'll get their $hit together for our next pass."

 

[Brett327]

ECMO1 is also a valuable source for pilot self-deception; i.e. the post bolter "Man, those blind pig-f'rs on the platform f'd us...well, they'll get their $hit together for our next pass."

I'm more of a realist: "Jesus Christ, dude. WTF was that? You'd better get your shit together or you'll kill every last one of us! I'l be damned if I'm going to end up as a mass of charred flesh on the fantail, so how about you put some effort into this one?"

 

[MasterBates]

Tacan P2Ps are still a needed skill in the E-2.. No electronical gizmo to help or planometric view.

Just the RMI/BDHI. (no HSI, which I thought was strange)

 

[Brett327]

Tacan P2Ps are still a needed skill in the E-2.. No electronical gizmo to help or planometric view.

Just the RMI/BDHI. (no HSI, which I thought was strange)

WRT P2P: HSI, BDHI, same same. You're telling me you don't have some kind of FMS that you can type in a fix and fly direct?

Brett

 

[MasterBates]

Nope. No FMS in the E-2. We can put points into the INS system, but if they tell you "cleared direct RYNOL" or such, unless you have pre-programmed it, you have to define it to the system.

Some planes have a COTS Garmin GNS-530, maybe about half of the planes at the RAG. Can't speak to fleet squadrons, but I think it's similar.

I just threw the HSI comment in there because I thought it was odd that we only have a T-34 style CDI in there. The "Glass Cockpit" upgrades the CODs are getting now is NICE, and I look forward to the far future when the E-2Cs get the retrofit.

 

[FlyingOnFumes]

Nope. No FMS in the E-2. We can put points into the INS system, but if they tell you "cleared direct RYNOL" or such, unless you have pre-programmed it, you have to define it to the system.

Some planes have a COTS Garmin GNS-530, maybe about half of the planes at the RAG. Can't speak to fleet squadrons, but I think it's similar.

I just threw the HSI comment in there because I thought it was odd that we only have a T-34 style CDI in there. The "Glass Cockpit" upgrades the CODs are getting now is NICE, and I look forward to the far future when the E-2Cs get the retrofit.

How long before you guys get the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye? They're retrofitting the old birds even though the new one is gonna replace the C?