MV-22 Osprey

[jamnww]

Just to put this out there....the -60 has triple redundant hydralics and dual-redundant controls. But I know it's a bit newer than your beloved Phorg. Interesting info, though, thanks for the update.

Does the 53 suffer from the outdated single hydralic systems?

 

[HueyCobra8151]

Besides, a rigid rotor head has fewer components to fail or get damaged than the fully-articulated heads most military helos have, but most critics don't bother to look that deeply.

How does a rigid rotor head affect flight characteristics? For instance, the H-1's have semi-rigid heads, and have a pretty large range for blade flap, how does that work out w/ a rigid head? I am guessing the head has to have to have pretty similar tolerances for blade flap, but with a semi-rigid head, I don't see how that would work.

I mean, if you pull collective and smash the cyclic all the way forward, the head (and blades) is/(are) going to have to angle downwards (in the fore direction), so how can a rigid head pull off the same thing?

 

[phrogdriver]

A rigid head is a misnomer--it twists like a fully-articulated head, but instead of bearings, it uses elastomeric composites that are one-piece.

jamn--perhaps I was unclear by what I meant by redundancy. Most helos, like the 46, have 2 hydraulic systems that can move flight controls (the 46 also has a utility system for the ramp, hoist, etc.). The V22 has 3 of everything, plus it's fly-by-wire, which means fewer moving parts, valves, etc.

 

[ChuckMK23]

How does a rigid rotor head affect flight characteristics? For instance, the H-1's have semi-rigid heads, and have a pretty large range for blade flap, how does that work out w/ a rigid head? I am guessing the head has to have to have pretty similar tolerances for blade flap, but with a semi-rigid head, I don't see how that would work.

I mean, if you pull collective and smash the cyclic all the way forward, the head (and blades) is/(are) going to have to angle downwards (in the fore direction), so how can a rigid head pull off the same thing?

Having flown the BK-117 and BO-105 - both rigid rotor systems. Elastrometric "bearings" provide for articulation; flap, cyclic twist, and lead/lag. Think tension-torsion strap on TH-57.

As far as flying characteristics are concerned, a rigid rotor system is extremely responsive. Going from the control lag of say a UH-1 or TH-57/Bell 206 to the BK is a small but significant learning curve. There is no "force trim" on these aircraft, instead a 4-way trim button that you are constantly adjusting.

Since forces of cyclic, collective and power transmit directly to the rotor mast, a cockpit gauge(called the MMI or Mast Moment Indicator - not unlike the Cruise Guide Indicator on the H-46) indicates when those forces are near llimits - usually a warning on this gauge would be responded to by simply taking some power out in cruise flight, or reducing large cyclic movement in whatever manuever you were trying to perform (probably outside the POH anyways) - AOB>90 degrees, 60 degrees nose up or something that you shouldn't be doing in a Part 135 operation anyway. Sitting on the ground at either idle or 100% Nf/Nr, moving the cyclic can easily exceed the MMI limits. For start and shutdown a little cyclic lock bar flips down and secures the cyclic in the perfect neutral position.

 

[Gatordev]

A rigid head is a misnomer--it twists like a fully-articulated head, but instead of bearings, it uses elastomeric composites that are one-piece.

jamn--perhaps I was unclear by what I meant by redundancy. Most helos, like the 46, have 2 hydraulic systems that can move flight controls (the 46 also has a utility system for the ramp, hoist, etc.). The V22 has 3 of everything, plus it's fly-by-wire, which means fewer moving parts, valves, etc.

...and understand I was mostly I was just poking fun at Phrog. Call it jealosy, since he probably has to wash that new plane smell out of his flight suit every day.

I'm sure the -53 mafia will pop up here and set it straight, but since the -53 is another fantastic Sikorsky product (no sarcasm meant), I'm sure they've got multiple redundancy and survivability....well, except for those pesky autos.

 

[ChuckMK23]

What's the official installed Nav capability of V-22?

What kind of instrument approaches are you training for in the sim?

What nacelle angle and airspeed do you use on final approach course on an instrument approach?

 

[NavyLonghorn]

Their are a few Marine guys in VT-35 starting the C-12 syllabus. Its a shorter program, 65 hours or so (18 weeksish), but they are still going to be flying a NATOPS check to recieve a multi-engine insturment raiting.

After VT-35, they head to P-cola. Sounds like alot of work.

I dont think they are sending any Osprey guys through VT-31, could be wrong though.

 

[skidkid]

Ok here goes first off we fly the CH-46, not the 47. The Huey is set to be replaced bt the UH-1Y, a four bladed huey that shares parts comminality with the new Cobra.

Bottomline it is apples and oranges. The Oprey is coming online a mere 20 years after the initial promised time-but dont worry the Yankee is trying to be competitive.

 

[jamnww]

Why is the V-22 replacing the 47's when the Corps still uses the Huey's? I thought the Huey is older and less capable than the 47's. Can anybody clear this up for me?

The huey has a different purpose with the modern Marine Corps than the 46 and is therefore not going to be replaced by the MV-22. The Huey, while in general is older than the CH-46 it has continued to be upgraded by design improvements and in fact another one is going to be hitting the fleet soon. The CH-46 on the other hand has undergone relatively few improvements and has instead been been focused around just keeping them airborne...

 

[phrogdriver]

What's the official installed Nav capability of V-22?

What kind of instrument approaches are you training for in the sim?

What nacelle angle and airspeed do you use on final approach course on an instrument approach?

ILS, TACAN, VOR, MKR BCN+ a VFR GPS. One practices approaches in all but the GPS.

Typically one converts prior to FAF. Airspeed is situationally dependent, but typically 60NAC/115 KCAS.

 

[Ryoukai]

Forgive me if this has been answered (I couldn't find it in this thread) but what happened to the critics who said that the Osprey, with it's speed, would outrun the escort helos? I also remember people on this board talking about how it had no guns of its own, is that still an issue?

 

[Fly Navy]

CH-46 is medium lift

CH-47 is heavy lift

 

[BRM21o]

Phrogdriver,

With the MV-22 now replacing the CH-46, are the majority of future Marine pilots out of primary (who don't go F/W) going to be selecting 22's? When are they going to stop sending aviators through the Phrog pipeline?

S/F

 

[Gatordev]

One big difference, Ghost, is the extra 25,000 lbs and 10-20 extra people. That's huge when you want to move troops/gear in country or need to get something over one those crazy hills in the Sandbox.

 

[phrogdriver]

You'll need new phrog pilots for at least the next several years, as long as there are 46 squadrons left. It will be a long while before it forms a majority of non-TACAIR Marine aviation.

Ryoukai--it will still outrun any rotary wing escort. How to handle that will be situationally dependent, whether you use fixed-wing, forward-positioned rotary-wing, or whatever else. A gun will be onthe fleet birds.