Dude, choose the SP5K purely for the vibes, as the kids say. The AAFES exchanges have good deals on SP5s and SP5Ks from time to time and the no tax is a huge benefit.
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My Latest Purchase (or just pictures of your current guns)
- Thread starter gaijin6423
- Start date
GroundPounder
Well-Known Member
I agree, but I think it's easier to do with our Sig P320s that have the flat trigger. The key is to go slow and stop if you feel an obstruction. None of our ADs have been in a tactical situation, and IF they were caused the way I think they were, they could have easily been avoided.
Good idea on AAFES. I’ve had a line on a SP5K for $2700 shipped from a no tax state.Dude, choose the SP5K purely for the vibes, as the kids say. The AAFES exchanges have good deals on SP5s and SP5Ks from time to time and the no tax is a huge benefit.
Unfortunately, that price is still a little too rich for my taste, and that’s probably because it’s Cerakoted a hideous shade of poo (FDE). I like FDE just fine on a lot of guns, but a SP5 is only meant to be the way that John McClane and the SAS had it in my book. Plus the add ons to make it more functional (eg optics rail) are also disgustingly expensive.
Man I still will holster my M17/18 for range/match shooting where I can better control where the muzzle goes when holstered, but I’m still leery of making it a chambered CCW. I was mostly sold on it being a trigger pull problem, up until the FOIA’d reports that came out late last year about the military issue models also having a few reports of uncommanded discharges also has made me less than thrilled.
I’m still not in the camp of “it’s broken”, but I don’t love the uncertainty and the lack of transparency on what independent testing is done on these guns (if any) when an incident is reported.
View attachment IMG_0267.jpeg
Pic from over the weekend. Hornady gets pretty much all my long range money…
Pic from over the weekend. Hornady gets pretty much all my long range money…
Yikes. Not sure that would have been my first reaction. Check the student for holes, maybe take five to talk it through and get over the surprise factor.
Wish we could have seen what happened. Was he reholstering, or messing with the pistol at the time?
Either way, I’m relieved not to own a P320. Too much controversy for a niche with a host of other great options.
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I've been around a few accidental discharges while deployed...but I'll take it back to about 1982, when as a youngster of about 9-10 and I shot a small little hole in the family shitty TV...while dry-firing a BB gun rifle at Sunday NFL players with the whole family gathered around...apparently there was a BB still in there...haha. Lessons were learned.
I’m sure that wasn’t funny at the time, but I chuckled reading that. F’n kids…
I ND’d my Mk-25 once in a similar way (dry fire oopsie). Fortunately the only thing it hit was a concrete wall and only damaged my hearing & pride. My son heard the shot, which scared the hell out of him. Not funny at all. As a result, I changed my gun storage protocol and started taking recurrent training classes.
Regarding the P320- so much controversy, it’s hard to tell what’s really going on. in some ways, I’m surprised ADs don’t happen more often with some of the clowns I see at the range. When they seem to regularly go viral on one type of pistol it does make one wonder what is behind it- internet conspiracy or actual issue?
It was fucking mortifying...Oh well, I think my dad got a 20-gauge shotgun for Christmas when he was 9..I’m sure that wasn’t funny at the time, but I chuckled reading that. F’n kids…
According to that post, it was just chillin' in the holster. I'm not sure I completely believe that, but like you, I'm not really sure how much to buy into the current internet outrage.
Agreed, although I think a lot of times they do "AD" and don't "ND" because the gun is pointed down range, they just weren't truly ready for the next shot.
It's also interesting watching people as a RSO. In the squad I usually shoot in, there's a lot regulars that are very competent, but every so often it still happens at the end of a stage because someone is rushing to clear their weapon when the timer has already stopped. There is also a lot of people at the match I shoot at that have only shot at that match.
The match itself sets safety as the first priority, but it's also not a crazy strict match when it comes to match protocols like gun tables and pre- and post- stage procedures. Yes, you come to the line cold and you run through the loading process, and do the same when downloading at the end of the stage, but there are a lot of people that don't understand why you "hammer down" after you clear and why it's not a good idea to do it while pointing the gun into the ground by your feet. When I RSO and see that, I'll try and educate them and also explain that if they go somewhere else for a competition, it will be way more strict.
What I do see WAY more often is violation of the 180 rule, and that gets dealt with swiftly and with little patience. Usually people apologize and correct when they get to the edge and get yelled at. But there was this one guy recently that ran at all of us (behind him and the firing line) with his rifle and then wanted to argue after he got DQ'ed. He literally said, "Oh, I didn't even think about that..." Really? It's mentioned about 20 times throughout the stages. Do you not see how everyone else is running awkwardly with their rifle still pointed in a safe direction? Sheesh.
There is a lot of funk on social media right now re: Sig and P320 ADs. Including some genius "trust the science" types that foound the striker will fall if you jam a metal punch in between the slide and frame from the rear. "See, its proof the gun is unsafe".
I have a colleague that is a AF CMsgt and a base defender (SF) - the overall experience with the M18 has been very positive. Thousands and thousands of rounds witnessed without an AD. All the duty SF folks here are Condition 1 with both M4 and M18. Every Airman gets "their own gun" and the weapon comes with 4 grip modules and there is a fitting guide.
Now the M18 has a manual safety where the P320 does not. Perhaps a mitigating thing.
I'm told optics will soon become standard on duty M17/M18.
I have a colleague that is a AF CMsgt and a base defender (SF) - the overall experience with the M18 has been very positive. Thousands and thousands of rounds witnessed without an AD. All the duty SF folks here are Condition 1 with both M4 and M18. Every Airman gets "their own gun" and the weapon comes with 4 grip modules and there is a fitting guide.
Now the M18 has a manual safety where the P320 does not. Perhaps a mitigating thing.
I'm told optics will soon become standard on duty M17/M18.
The holster is a big part of the equation. I can't help but wonder if there's a common element there. Our security guys at the base (USN and USAF both) have M17/18s in what appears to be a Safariland holster, and have had no issues with AD/NDs that I am aware of.
There are reports of issues with military models too.
Documents detail U.S. soldiers shot by their own Sig Sauer guns; military says no reason for concern
On military bases from Virginia to the Middle East, pistols made by NH-based Sig Sauer have unintentionally fired, seriously wounding soldiers in some instances.
www.nhpr.org
Article includes the individual FOIAd writeups.
Some still sound more like NDs than a real malfunction.
I think the manual safety is a big mitigating factor for sure, because some of the civilian or LE reported incidents sound like a thing where the safety could have helped prevent if engaged.
That said, I agree that comparatively the extremely low volume of incidents on the military side considering the number in circulation daily in Cond 1 says something. That said, there are also some slight differences between the mil M17/18 and the commercial “M17/18” as well. It’s noticeable if you operate them side by side (though not exactly visible)