Navy Attack Helos?

[ElCidAv8tor05]

This may be a dumb question, so feel free to flame me but: IS there any possibility that the Navy is going to bring dedicated attack helos into the Navy fleet (i.e. Cobras)? I think it would make since, especially considering the NAvy's new emphasis on littoral combat. A Cobra loaded down with missles, rockets, and a 20mm would be alot more effective against an armada of torpedo boats than a -60 which can only carry a few hellfires at a time. Perhaps the future could see mixed division deployments, one CObra and one
SH-60, on the small boys or the new LCS. I don't think it would be wise to take Marine Cobras away from the MAGs and send them to the Navy, so why not create a certain number of Navy attack Helo squadrons? Or maybe make the new HCS squadrons a mixed squadron with both Cobras and -60s?
Oh well, this is just the opinion of a stupid enswine, so it amounts to about a hill of beans. Maybe those of you with more experience and some insight into this subject could inform the rest of us. thanks for your help.

-"Easy"

 

[zab1001]

A Cobra loaded down with missles, rockets, and a 20mm would be alot more effective against an armada of torpedo boats than a -60 which can only carry a few hellfires at a time.

Where exactly have we faced, encountered, discovered said "armada" in the current world?

A few years ago, I got to fly in a large scale exercise involving all Maritime platforms. Without going into details/OPSEC territory, the helos took care of business when it came to small boat threats. Credit due and given to those guys.

60s have it covered. If the threat is elevated, they'll keep modifying the program. Dream on as far as a Navy Cobras go.

Keep drinking that Kool Aid though, sounds like it's goooooood stuff.

 

[Gatordev]

Well, they kind of already have this, as it's referred to as an ESG, or Expeditionary Strike Group. There's a gator flattop as the center, w/ a MEU onboard, and then several small boys attached to the group. There are a few -60S on the LHA and then then the small boys will be carrying the -60B/R. With this setup, you can use what was called T-Bone (when used w/ a cobra), but is now just joint ops, with the the -60B providing local combat direction for anything the MEU flies. Eventually, if you believe the NAVAIR folks, the -60 will get rockets as well.

As for small boat threat and hellfires, they're not the perfect match. I don't know what the WEZ is for a Cobra's 20mm, and don't expect it to be said here, but I'm guessing it's not that much more than a GAU on a 60, just better directed (and a bigger hunk of metal that's flying through the air).

As Zab is saying, they've kind of got this covered w/ the assets they have now and the foreseeable future.

 

[SteveG75]

Perhaps the future could see mixed division deployments, one CObra and one SH-60, on the small boys or the new LCS. ... Or maybe make the new HCS squadrons a mixed squadron with both Cobras and -60s?

One word why it is a "hill of beans" - MAINTENANCE

2 SH-60's on a DDG means that you will have one available while the other is in scheduled maintenance (7/14/28/56/224 day inspections, etc). Also, only need one set of replacement parts, etc. You get the idea.

 

[Gatordev]

I think the shoes' head would explode if they had to a) find room for and b) track two PUKs.

 

[skidkid]

Yeah there are things in place where we can work with the 60 guys but there just inst enough work to justify Navy Cobras. As for the small boat threat we dont bring that much more to the table than the 60 guys already have and their FLIR is better than ours right now anyway.

 

[nittany03]

I think the -60 with a full load looks quite intimidating and can certainly pack a punch. Especially with the two door/window GAU's in a foward locked position.

That. Just. Looks. Sick. In a good way, of course!

 

[Gatordev]

The DAP. Brainchild of Cliff Wolcott and the 160th SOAR. Definitely looks mean.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

I think the shoes' head would explode if they had to a) find room for and b) track two PUKs.

There would be room on the LCS....not the Frigates, Cruisers, or Destoyers though. And the DDG's....only the FLT IIA's get the helo det.

 

[HH-60H]

Concur with everything that has been said. If there is a need for a more loaded up 60 in the future, as you have seen, the Seahawk/Blackhawk airframe can handle it. It would just be a matter of running it through NAVAIR and onto the helos.

 

[Punk]

The DAP. Brainchild of Cliff Wolcott and the 160th SOAR. Definitely looks mean.

I was about to say that. I recall reading about that in Durant's book. Pretty damn capable platform.

 

[ElCidAv8tor05]

hey guys thanks for setting me straight I really appreciate it. THat -60 with all the weapons loaded on it looks like one mean mutha.... I'd hate to be on the receiving end of that. Another question: is the new LCS supposed to have more space for a helo det, or is it going to be roughly the same as the current DDGs, etc.? For those of you that have actually detted out to the small boys, are the helo crews busy doing actual missions alot, or is most of your flying time spent "fooling" around?


- "Easy"

 

[zab1001]

or is most of your flying time spent "fooling" around?

time hack

 

[Gatordev]

 

[ChuckMK23]

I think a lot of the issue has to do with the political and budget boundaries on "forward firing weapons" in Naval Avtiation. Years ago when the army was beginning to field the AH-64 Apache, McDonnel-Douglas released an artist's conception of a navalized AH-64 helo - brimming with Hellfire missles,lifting off the deck of an FFG. This illustration was printed in Proceedings and from what I heard (pure rumor) was that the light attack community just about had a heart attack. I don't know all the details but you never, ever saw that picture again.

A big strep occurred when HCS-4 and HCS-5 transitioned from being HAL-4 and HAL-5 and acquired the HH-60H. Then came Helfire capability. Ask any of the original HCS boys though and they will tello you that getting ANY live missles to either train with or deploy with was near impossible. The ammo budget was purposely messed with to deny the Hellfire capability from maturing to a point that it could compete with anything that came off a CV. Right or wrong there are only so many resources - and there is true competition around this stuff (e.g. even warriors are not above some partisan politiking).

I understand the MH-60S should be certified for Hellfire...


Picture of an HS-8 bird shooting a live Hellfire back in 2003