"Navy Freeing up Aviation Training Pipeline"

[bigwill2876]

You guys got to have BIKES ?

Man am I po'ed at my Dad now !

Riding his bike with no hands, tuff, but I am more amazed at the guy completed Pilot training with no hands ! BZ

 

[exhelodrvr]

You guys got to have BIKES ?

Man am I po'ed at my Dad now !

Riding his bike with no hands, tuff, but I am more amazed at the guy completed Pilot training with no hands ! BZ

It's amazing how adaptable the human body is.

 

[Random Task]

Oh, in that case, my reasoning still stands. An engineering degree is not an indicator of getting a successful job on the outside as well....based only from what I've seen from friends trying to get jobs in the real world. I have no actual data to back up my opinion

When I graduated the only engineers I knew that didn't have jobs were going to pursue higher education. Most had their jobs lined up before the final semester. By contrast from both business and arts majors were struggling to find jobs many of whom didn't find a job that would allow them to support themselves.

 

[CUPike11]

I can tell you for a fact that if you have no experience in engineering, you're not getting a job right now.

I was unemployed for a full year (entered OCS the very day I got laid off one year later) and searched around for every kind of job I could find in engineering and even outside of engineering. I had 3 years of experience working on 3 major commercial space satellites and I was going up against guys who had YEARS of experience. So it made my 3 years of awesome experience look like I had been playing with legos in the sandbox compared to other people.

Nothing is a sure bet right now in this economy, so unless you have some awesome connections, falling back on your degree mainly because of what it is, isn't a safe bet. And I'm an Aerospace major too, so yeah.....

 

[bunk22]

When I graduated the only engineers I knew that didn't have jobs were going to pursue higher education. Most had their jobs lined up before the final semester. By contrast from both business and arts majors were struggling to find jobs many of whom didn't find a job that would allow them to support themselves.

You can justify it however you want as I've known engineers without jobs. Well, my old neighbor did take a job selling life insurance but was an engineer by trade. Like in flight school, a specific major does not guarantee success on the outside world.

 

[bunk22]

I can tell you for a fact that if you have no experience in engineering, you're not getting a job right now.

I was unemployed for a full year (entered OCS the very day I got laid off one year later) and searched around for every kind of job I could find in engineering and even outside of engineering. I had 3 years of experience working on 3 major commercial space satellites and I was going up against guys who had YEARS of experience. So it made my 3 years of awesome experience look like I had been playing with legos in the sandbox compared to other people.

Nothing is a sure bet right now in this economy, so unless you have some awesome connections, falling back on your degree mainly because of what it is, isn't a safe bet. And I'm an Aerospace major too, so yeah.....

Exactly.

 

[jtmedli]

So it made my 3 years of awesome experience look like I had been playing with legos in the sandbox compared to other people.

Pretty much the story of engineering these days. Old guys with ridiculous knowledge/experience are worth 800 Noobs.

 

[Random Task]

Like in flight school, a specific major does not guarantee success on the outside world.

Also like flight school it's all about time and place. Sometimes the demand for certain majors will make getting a job in that field much easier. Also demand for engineers in one place will be different from the demand in another. I was simply offering what I had seen in my time frame in my location. I didn't mean to come across as making a generalization. I am definitely not saying engineers always get jobs. Engineering can't be grouped as a whole, either. I'm not sure what the job market is like for Aero Eng's but it's probably different from Mech E's which are the people I'm familiar with. That being said, it's on the individual to succeed in the specific field.

 

[RotorHead04]

I can tell you for a fact that if you have no experience in engineering, you're not getting a job right now.

I was unemployed for a full year (entered OCS the very day I got laid off one year later) and searched around for every kind of job I could find in engineering and even outside of engineering. I had 3 years of experience working on 3 major commercial space satellites and I was going up against guys who had YEARS of experience. So it made my 3 years of awesome experience look like I had been playing with legos in the sandbox compared to other people.

Nothing is a sure bet right now in this economy, so unless you have some awesome connections, falling back on your degree mainly because of what it is, isn't a safe bet. And I'm an Aerospace major too, so yeah.....

Okay, so clearly this sidebar conversation about engineering is mostly irrelevant to the OP, but since you opened the can of worms -- since when did one person's experience (or someone's personal opinion) become the way by which adult professionals measure an overall trend? The fact of the matter is that the economy is still recovering, as is the jobs market. That being said, engineering students are still enjoying multiple job offers upon graduation. There are fewer overall offers than in previous years, but they are still there. Another effect of the market is the fact that options for and rate of advancement in engineering positions are fewer / slower. Engineering in America is still a fantastic degree to obtain; read and heed nuggets.

Now for something more germane to the OP: being an engineer doesn't make you a better Naval Aviator. You can muse all day about aerodynamic forces and their influence on flight profiles, but at the end of the day, you still have to wiggle the sticks and make quick decisions. Engineers when I was in flight school tended to understand the why and how a bit better, but I have to be honest, when it came to test time, lots of the top performers were non-engineers. The reasons are two-fold: (1) non-engineers tend to be intimidated by technical material so they study harder, and (2) engineers tend to over think test questions while their non-engineering counterparts have just memorized all of the important details from the pubs.

... so, yeah ....

 

[CUPike11]

Words....

However you inferred it, that's on you....I was merely presenting the facts and viewpoint from someone who was trying to make it and applying for many types of jobs within engineering after being laid off. Yes it is an opinion and the OP can use with that what they will. I'm not speaking for all engineers, I was speaking for myself as a former young professional in the engineering community who was decently qualified and how hard it was for me to "use my degree and experience" to find another job.

Is my personal experience indicative of everyone? Absolutely not, it'd be dumb to think that. But its an opinion....not a factual statement that generalizes an entire workforce. I was just trying to provide another viewpoint from someone who struggled with finding nothing before joining the Navy. The OP mentioned that he could fall back on his degree, and my argument was that it'd be much harder right now outside in the civilian world and to just take the chance, work his butt off at OCS and guarantee his commission. Yes the economy is recovering, but the job market, especially in the engineering sector and with funding being cut for the space sector, isn't going to instantaneously recover along with it. It was just an opinion...that was all. It doesn't make it wrong just because you may not agree with some of it.

 

[bunk22]

Okay, so clearly this sidebar conversation about engineering is mostly irrelevant to the OP, but since you opened the can of worms -- since when did one person's experience (or someone's personal opinion) become the way by which adult professionals measure an overall trend? The fact of the matter is that the economy is still recovering, as is the jobs market. That being said, engineering students are still enjoying multiple job offers upon graduation. There are fewer overall offers than in previous years, but they are still there. Another effect of the market is the fact that options for and rate of advancement in engineering positions are fewer / slower. Engineering in America is still a fantastic degree to obtain; read and heed nuggets.

No one said it was an overall trend, we were offering personal experience. You too are offering personal experience and/or opinion as I don't see any data backing up your claims. Nothing wrong with an engineering degree but again, nobody has yet to back up anything they have said with hard data.

 

[bigwill2876]

I just think it's so exciting that you engineers can drive those big things coming down the tracks, chugging and blowing the horn, whooooo......whooooo.

 

[Archanan7]

In my experience people with high-end technical profession such as Doctors and Engineers have a hard time adapting to the cockpit in civilian aviation. After three years in engineering and two years Flight Instructing I've seen the majority of civilian students with technical degrees struggle to handle the second to second decision making and flight progression because IMHO they overanalyze and complicate simple procedures. This doesn't mean thats the deciding factor as to whether they are successful Aviators, just that I think it affects the learning curve. I'm about to start API with significant engineering and flight experience but I'm not going into it acting as if I have a leg up on anyone. As a matter of fact I'll probably have to RE-learn and/or adjust my thinking to new/different concepts, which again IMHO is quite a bit harder than starting with a clean slate. Besides why waste time worrying about it when you could be enjoying a beer on your post commissioning R&R or getting in better shape? Whatever your opinion theres better things to do with your time than argue about something you can't change. I'm gonna go enjoy my post-workout beverage

 

[RotorHead04]

No one said it was an overall trend, we were offering personal experience. You too are offering personal experience and/or opinion as I don't see any data backing up your claims. Nothing wrong with an engineering degree but again, nobody has yet to back up anything they have said with hard data.

Since you're going to call me out, here's a start from my alma mater and former employer ... https://www.cco.purdue.edu/about/postgraddata.shtml

As a prior educator, I still have plenty of friends with whom I have discussed this matter, especially in light of the fact that my wife stopped working last year in favor of obtaining an engineering masters. Much of the data we used to make the decision was based in no small part on input from my former colleagues who are privy to mounds of private data that universities collect on their students. This private data is distilled into products for public consumption such as the one I cited above. Similar products are available from most major universities.

So, that's about all of the defense I can provide.

@CUPike11: When you make a statement like, "I can tell you for a fact that if you have no experience in engineering, you're not getting a job right now." you're making a broader claim than just for yourself ... hence my response.

@bigwill2876: Now that's funny!

... now what were we ACTUALLY talking about?

 

[AGonxAV8R]

From my very own personal experience. It's how well the individual can perform and adapt! You give it 100% and you have the mentality, you will get good results. API is simply, not that hard!