Had a USMC baby hornet and AF A-10 pilot as a sim instructor awhile back. He said the A-10 had 15 CAMI items... not separate EPs.
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Navy VS Air Force Helicopter Pilot
- Thread starter Reg-A-Muffin0716
- Start date
Had a USMC baby hornet and AF A-10 pilot as a sim instructor awhile back. He said the A-10 had 15 CAMI items... not separate EPs.
Think about every memory item and what will happen if it’s not done immediately. Fire? Have time to get a checklist. Engine air restart? Time for a checklist. Very few require true immediate action. The restart is just dumb. If you have a dual flameout you’re auto rotating.
Ejection seats will do that.
I left about 2 years ago with 1037.
There are only two real CMI's in an H-60: Control Nr, Single engine conditions - Establish. Change my mind.
Eh, I'll give you engine air restart.
My counter argument would be that memorizing more EPs gives you better confidence to handle them in a real life situation and I think it enhances your ability to recognize what the EP actually is more quickly.
I'd argue transmission EPs are more important than engine.
How quickly can you descend and "land immediately" from most operating altitudes (other than starboard D)? There's time to reference a checklist.
I'd buy memorizing "indications of imminent failure"...
For comparison, the KC-135 has 6 bold face/CMI EPs for a total of 14 steps.
Granted, four engines and a 15:1 glide ratio helps too
Granted, four engines and a 15:1 glide ratio helps too
You wouldn't buy memorizing 80/80? If you're in a hover you'll blow right by that when you depart.
Memorizing those notes, warnings, cautions in the transmission section could be life saving in the event of a rapid failure. I agree in that case that they are more important than the actual CMIs. Immediate Landing/Ditching and Underwater Egress are two more that I agree with NATOPS should be memory.
I get what you're saying, and yes, I think you often have more time in a real life EP than we train for in the sim. But I think it is also a confidence booster to know that you know your aircraft well enough to have more than 5 EPs memorized. I've never thought to myself, "Gee, I really didn't actually need to know that" after I have had real EPs. Quite the opposite, I've always been glad I did know the CMIs and I could rattle them off. Felt like it set the crew up for success and knew I could reference the PCL/big NATOPS if I needed to.
Total transmission failure (any of the three), autorotate, assuming you can.
Impending failure, ditch.
Otherwise, you have time to break out the checklist.
Yep, and might be nice to know some of those ditching steps by memory as a reminder of what to do in the "oh crap" moment of impending failure.
That’s what egress/dunker training is for.
The training we do every four years? Haha, okay.
My shore tour was an exchange w the 512th, and I agree with pretty much everything mentioned above - except the pilot skills part. I came from HSL, and I suddenly found myself without the beloved altitude hold (RAD ALT or BAR ALT). Going to 100% over land (with terrain varying greatly in the mountainous parts of NM, a big change from sea level in Jax), my air work/scan improved very quickly - skills that have atrophied since leaving for the MH-60R.
I think I left my RQS exchange tour with about 400 hours over the ~3 yrs I was there. 120 came at Bagram sitting 12-on-12-off alert for 3.5 months. The most rewarding 3.5 months of my Navy career, without a doubt.
The NATOPS mandated egress training you are required to demonstrate annually in concurrence with your NATOPS check? Yup.
Along with dunker training.
Here’s my point, when have you ever had to spit out the ditching checklist in 5-10 seconds? Because if you lose a transmission or dual engine flameout at starboard d altitudes, that’s how much time you have. Instead, I can almost 99% guarantee that most all ditching checklists are run after a simulated EP while transiting to a field to do low work.
You will instinctually autorotate because we’ve been doing that since the HTs, and you will instinctually get out of your seat. If you need to accomplish any other steps, you will have time to pull out a checklist.