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Navy vs Air Force
- Thread starter contrail_dash
- Start date
"I am extremely motivated to be a fighter pilot and I have what it takes up to this point in my life. I have better than 20/20 vision, I have above a 3.0 GPA, physically fit, love to fly, and I will fight for my country."
Sounds like everyone else who goes through the flight program. I watched more engineering majors who wanted to be fighter pilots lose it half way through flight school because they didn't realize how much work it took to get the grades out of primary. Most people who use "motivated language" like you end up burning out before they even get a college degree.
Sounds like everyone else who goes through the flight program. I watched more engineering majors who wanted to be fighter pilots lose it half way through flight school because they didn't realize how much work it took to get the grades out of primary. Most people who use "motivated language" like you end up burning out before they even get a college degree.
Which one?Pretty easy in my mind. I met PSW at the Navy - Air Force football game in Annapolis. Navy won, so did I. I'd go Navy...
That certainly should encourage the high school senior. Son, demotivate your language... you are too excited to do this. Granted, it's a bit over the top, but at least he is excited about the profession. Excessive motivation is annoying, but far preferable to the lack there of. Cut him a little slack. Now calling senior folks names... well that's a different story.
Okay at second reading I realized you meant which Navy-AF game, but at first glance I thought you meant which PSW. I was about to be surprised by Phrog's polygamist tendencies.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
'05. I came up from TACP school in Norfolk with a couple buddies from the squadron (one was in TACP school with me, one was on leave with his in-laws in MD). Bumped into the JTF-Enabler OIC from my first deployment when I was walking into the head. Told her I was with my two buds, and that we had a tailgate, and she should swing by. She did, and she brought her cute friend. The rest is history
I was thinking it might be that game. I was there too, with a USAFA buddy of mine. It was great to see Navy win with him there.'05. I came up from TACP school in Norfolk with a couple buddies from the squadron (one was in TACP school with me, one was on leave with his in-laws in MD). Bumped into the JTF-Enabler OIC from my first deployment when I was walking into the head. Told her I was with my two buds, and that we had a tailgate, and she should swing by. She did, and she brought her cute friend. The rest is history
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
I bet, it sucked that it rained the whole time though...
And for what it's worth - we kept my season tickets, not PSW's. I think that the @mnf-wiraq.usmc.mil email address when I signed up helped me get season tickets in the '76 class area. 35 yard line, 6 rows up from the field. Yup, we're keeping these tickets for life.
I guess I can kind of see where he's coming from (I get annoyed by these threads too) because when I first decided to say "fuck engineering" and go be a military pilot, I looked at all the services like I would have for a civilian job going "what can the <insert service here> do for me?" but after really delving deep into the culture and a slight bit of the history of the services and learning about each one, I determined that the Navy was the BEST fit for me and there is no way in HELL I could join the AF (after being in AFROTC for a day, it was crystal clear!). The coast guard didn't interest me and the Marine Corps was my 2nd choice but I suck at PT, and my vocabular extends beyond "Yut", "devil dog", "oohrah", "semper fi".
My suggestion is to base your opinion off of some solid research into the service culture, traditions, history and lifestyles and figure out which one would fit you best. DO NOT base your decision on "time to train", "ROTC unit locations", " Your preference of F-16 to F-18" or other such nonesense.
This is going to be the next 10 years of your life, so base it on important factors. Not the "flavor of the week" bullshit.
Xtndr50boom
Voted 8.9 average on the Hot-or-Not scale
I have plenty of joint experience, both staff and flying, and I can echo what others have said about the AF, leadership, and mission completion.
The good about the AF:
- they take care of their people (QOL)
- Aside from flying, your job is never all that difficult/challenging
- As such, you never have a great deal of responsibility, and you get paid well for it
- I'm sure there's a fourth bullet I can list, but I'm racking my brain and coming up with nada
The bad about the AF:
All of the above.
- The QOL is great, but they get lulled into a state of coddling and complacency, and when it's time for them to leave their cozy AF world and go to the war or a joint command, it's an eye-opening, very uncomfortable adjustment for them.
- Their job is never challenging. I'll never forget going from the constant VT-10 helmet fire stress to Randolph, where you really had to try to flunk out of the pipeline. The AF has very set parameters for everything, and you rarely if ever venture outside of them. Those parameters are set at the lowest common denominator, which, while above the general civilian bar, is well below what you see in other services and, in general, what I would expect from a military officer.
- Little responsibility. The AF suffers from incest. The group or wing commander is typically right down the road from the squadron commander. This leads to a breakdown in authority, wherein the squadron CO has little authority to do anything. No delegation is possible for him, so his junior O's have little authority. Most tactical decisions must be passed up from the Mission Commander to the CO, and from the CO to the wing or group level. And I mean common no-brainer stuff, much less anything requiring actual mission analysis and judgment. Want to RON with the jet someplace due to unexpected circumstances? MC must get on the phone first and wait for the chain to work its magic. Want to bend or bust this AFI? No way there, MC. I don't care how justified it would be, it's just not going to happen, because the AF MC has to go up through his chain to the general, who will shoot it down because it's too risky, despite having absolutely zero SA on what's going on.
The Navy Skipper actually has authority, and usually delegates much of this down to his JO's. In addition, from my experience, they will usually back up the decisions of his MC's since they are qualified and make sound judgments, even if it means bending or breaking rules. When it's done in the name of mission accomplishment, it's easy to endorse. Not so in the AF.
All of this also leads to a situation where the JO's have little authority, and thus little leadership experience. My crew flew with an AF major who was horrible. Turns out he'd never been outside of the US before. I still can't wrap my brain around that one. And since AF Mx is typically not co-located with the squadron, the AF JO's don't have much to do ground-job wise, and any personnel to actually lead.
This means that you have dismal leadership qualities rising to the top of the AF structure. I think this is reflected in what happened with the COS recently. Heck, the AF generals even acknowledged to some extent that the lines between senior E and junior E, and even O and E, are a bit too blurred. That is bad leadership in a nutshell, and is a symptom that is so rampant in the AF that you'll see it anywhere you go that has AF personnel.
There's one huge advantage, though, to going AF: your chances of being promoted are greater. I have no numbers to back that up, but it's what I'm seeing right now.
The good about the AF:
- they take care of their people (QOL)
- Aside from flying, your job is never all that difficult/challenging
- As such, you never have a great deal of responsibility, and you get paid well for it
- I'm sure there's a fourth bullet I can list, but I'm racking my brain and coming up with nada
The bad about the AF:
All of the above.
- The QOL is great, but they get lulled into a state of coddling and complacency, and when it's time for them to leave their cozy AF world and go to the war or a joint command, it's an eye-opening, very uncomfortable adjustment for them.
- Their job is never challenging. I'll never forget going from the constant VT-10 helmet fire stress to Randolph, where you really had to try to flunk out of the pipeline. The AF has very set parameters for everything, and you rarely if ever venture outside of them. Those parameters are set at the lowest common denominator, which, while above the general civilian bar, is well below what you see in other services and, in general, what I would expect from a military officer.
- Little responsibility. The AF suffers from incest. The group or wing commander is typically right down the road from the squadron commander. This leads to a breakdown in authority, wherein the squadron CO has little authority to do anything. No delegation is possible for him, so his junior O's have little authority. Most tactical decisions must be passed up from the Mission Commander to the CO, and from the CO to the wing or group level. And I mean common no-brainer stuff, much less anything requiring actual mission analysis and judgment. Want to RON with the jet someplace due to unexpected circumstances? MC must get on the phone first and wait for the chain to work its magic. Want to bend or bust this AFI? No way there, MC. I don't care how justified it would be, it's just not going to happen, because the AF MC has to go up through his chain to the general, who will shoot it down because it's too risky, despite having absolutely zero SA on what's going on.
The Navy Skipper actually has authority, and usually delegates much of this down to his JO's. In addition, from my experience, they will usually back up the decisions of his MC's since they are qualified and make sound judgments, even if it means bending or breaking rules. When it's done in the name of mission accomplishment, it's easy to endorse. Not so in the AF.
All of this also leads to a situation where the JO's have little authority, and thus little leadership experience. My crew flew with an AF major who was horrible. Turns out he'd never been outside of the US before. I still can't wrap my brain around that one. And since AF Mx is typically not co-located with the squadron, the AF JO's don't have much to do ground-job wise, and any personnel to actually lead.
This means that you have dismal leadership qualities rising to the top of the AF structure. I think this is reflected in what happened with the COS recently. Heck, the AF generals even acknowledged to some extent that the lines between senior E and junior E, and even O and E, are a bit too blurred. That is bad leadership in a nutshell, and is a symptom that is so rampant in the AF that you'll see it anywhere you go that has AF personnel.
There's one huge advantage, though, to going AF: your chances of being promoted are greater. I have no numbers to back that up, but it's what I'm seeing right now.