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new developments posted on CNN about the -18 mishap in Miramar last december
- Thread starter theblakeness
- Start date
http://www.airwarriors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146517
Beat ya to it champ.
Beat ya to it champ.
MasterBates
Well-Known Member
Just a friendly reminder to keep the speculation to a minimum.
And by minimum, I mean zero.
And by minimum, I mean zero.
Well I posted the version for us little guys who lack the access to the super secret squirrel pages of the form.
So what, if anything, do you have for comment or conclusions, i.e. don't post a link unless you have something to say about it.
Can one of you swabbie types outline the types of 'supervision' that an RTU student would have in this situation?
In the USAF we'd have Wing-level supervision in the form of the Supervisor of Flying (SOF) and squadron-level in the form of the Operations Supervisor (Top 3).
How does it work for you dudes? Obviously this Hornet student didn't come up with the idea to fly to another base on his own, so what duty officer did?
In the USAF we'd have Wing-level supervision in the form of the Supervisor of Flying (SOF) and squadron-level in the form of the Operations Supervisor (Top 3).
How does it work for you dudes? Obviously this Hornet student didn't come up with the idea to fly to another base on his own, so what duty officer did?
Typically, we don't have dudes on the ground telling us what to do with our jets, where to go with an emergency, etc. I don't know what the RAG SOPs are there at 101, but it's generally the aircrew's call at that point and their responsibility if the decision ends up being a bad one.
Brett
I dont..considering comments and conclusions (especially from someone who is unwashed like myself) generally get the topic closed. I was merely sharing this news I found in the current news section. Next time I'll come up with a witty comment worth the approval of the seniors on this site for risk of flaring up their already moody attitudes. :icon_tong
JIMMY
Registered User
well, aside from the cause of the crash.. thats one thing I cant stand about people... especially the media. If you chose to build your house or live near an airport, then accept that fcked up sh!t can happen. People always seem to forget that the airport in almost all cases was there first., not the homes. They always try to bring the community together to close a base or airport. BAH! i mean.. all this aside from the pilot may have made a bad call, i dunno what really happened.
Like Brett said we don't have all the people on the ground making the decisions like the USAF. If we would talk to anyone it would be the SDO standing by a radio in the ready room, maintenance control had one on the same freq. If wasn't a land ASAP and you were near home plate that would often be the case, especially with a complex EP, with word getting around quick so that the more senior aircrew would get on the radio and help them through any procedures or with helpful advice. I would guess in this case there were a couple of instructors standing around the radio, maybe the CO and/or XO too, giving the guy advice. Occasionally the CO or XO might order them to do something, like divert to a particular field, but the final decision always rested with the guy who signed the book.
People from the wing or the base rarely got involved, they never did in my personal experience (one of the Harrier guys here mentioned one instance of it with a TAV-8B, I assume it is rare for them too though). And they did not have duty officers either like the SOF, that is a completely foreign concept to us. The USAF guys in my Prowler squadron had to explain it to us when were in PSAB.
From what I know ops on the boat are a little bit different, though the general concept still exists. The boat guys can chime in with how things are done there.
In the CV and especially the CQ enviroment dealing with a lot of new students, the direction from the ship on where and when to go to the beach and in what configuration is quite common. For those who do not know, here's how it works.
Each squadron has a "rep" in the tower standing next to the Air Boss (in charge of the flight ops) who will get on the radio and talk to the pilots when something happens. Based on the info collected by the rep and/or boss, the air boss, rep and sometimes the CO of the ship will decide what to do with the plane. The decision is then passed to the pilot and 99% of the time that decision is what will happen. IE, you have a single engine and your signal is "divert to Mirimar." At that point there is little discussion. You divert to Mirimar unless you are certain you aren't going to make it. If the boss tells you to bring it back to the ship, you do that as well. The "I'm the pilot and doing what I want" idea goes away a little operating at the boat. You do have the absolute final decision, but if it goes against the ship's reccommendation, you better be 100% correct and let the ship know what and why you are doing what you are doing!
Now, there are plenty of questions of who said what here, but if the pilot was told to take it to Mirimar, that would be done with little question. Especially if he only had a single engine situation at that point. Don't know when he got a low fuel light, but that should have turned it into land ASAP and then it is totally up to the pilot in command.
Sorry for the long post and obvious info for those who've been to the boat!
Each squadron has a "rep" in the tower standing next to the Air Boss (in charge of the flight ops) who will get on the radio and talk to the pilots when something happens. Based on the info collected by the rep and/or boss, the air boss, rep and sometimes the CO of the ship will decide what to do with the plane. The decision is then passed to the pilot and 99% of the time that decision is what will happen. IE, you have a single engine and your signal is "divert to Mirimar." At that point there is little discussion. You divert to Mirimar unless you are certain you aren't going to make it. If the boss tells you to bring it back to the ship, you do that as well. The "I'm the pilot and doing what I want" idea goes away a little operating at the boat. You do have the absolute final decision, but if it goes against the ship's reccommendation, you better be 100% correct and let the ship know what and why you are doing what you are doing!
Now, there are plenty of questions of who said what here, but if the pilot was told to take it to Mirimar, that would be done with little question. Especially if he only had a single engine situation at that point. Don't know when he got a low fuel light, but that should have turned it into land ASAP and then it is totally up to the pilot in command.
Sorry for the long post and obvious info for those who've been to the boat!
The "rep" usually being a JO who's there for the Boss to yell at.
"Hawkeye Rep!"
"Yessir, Boss?"
"Is 601 coming down out of the stack today, or does he require a @#$%! invitation?"
When things go to hell, the Skipper (or XO, MO or OPS if he's flying) shows up lickety-split. Then the "Rep" gets to stand in the background holding the PCL while the Heavies make the decisions.
"Hawkeye Rep!"
"Yessir, Boss?"
"Is 601 coming down out of the stack today, or does he require a @#$%! invitation?"
When things go to hell, the Skipper (or XO, MO or OPS if he's flying) shows up lickety-split. Then the "Rep" gets to stand in the background holding the PCL while the Heavies make the decisions.
The news here was not kind to the pilot or the Corps last night regarding the situation. Predictable, but sad nonetheless.
ASSuming for a moment that there were some serious errors made, as someone who goes to work everyday with little more than incorrect forms on the line if I mess up, I can't imagine what it would be like to know that my mistakes led to the loss of lives. To have to be torn apart on the local news besides... I can't imagine. I wish the news would keep that in mind, since clearly, there was no malice here, even *if* there were errors.
ASSuming for a moment that there were some serious errors made, as someone who goes to work everyday with little more than incorrect forms on the line if I mess up, I can't imagine what it would be like to know that my mistakes led to the loss of lives. To have to be torn apart on the local news besides... I can't imagine. I wish the news would keep that in mind, since clearly, there was no malice here, even *if* there were errors.