new developments posted on CNN about the -18 mishap in Miramar last december

[bunk22]

The "rep" usually being a JO who's there for the Boss to yell at.
"Hawkeye Rep!"
"Yessir, Boss?"
"Is 601 coming down out of the stack today, or does he require a @#$%! invitation?"
When things go to hell, the Skipper (or XO, MO or OPS if he's flying) shows up lickety-split. Then the "Rep" gets to stand in the background holding the PCL while the Heavies make the decisions.

Funny how the Boss used to ask questions in which you couldn't possibly answer.
"Password Rep!"
"Yessir, Boss?"
"Why did that Password cut off the Tomcat and not spin behind!?"
"Sir, this midshipman does not know but will find out!"

As far as this mishap, I haven't seen the SIR or JAG investigation on it so I'll hold my opinion until then. My overall guess is that head were going to roll, somebody was going to be held accountable due to the deaths and media coverage.

 

[exhelodrvr]

LA Time article from today:

http://tinyurl.com/aldxf7

 

[scoolbubba]

I wonder how many people who wrote that article can claim to have made a decision that 18 seconds later could kill them, and hang in there for 17. The media needs someone to hang, and picking a RAG stud seems par for the course.

 

[exhelodrvr]

I wonder how many people who wrote that article can claim to have made a decision that 18 seconds later could kill them, and hang in there for 17. The media needs someone to hang, and picking a RAG stud seems par for the course.

I don't think the articles were focused on blaming the pilot; they aimed much more at decisions that led to the attempt to land at Miramar rather than North Island, and the thought that that aircraft had long-standing fuel issues that may have contributed. I didn't see anything that was unfair.

 

[nittany03]

I thought the LA Times article was actually very fair in this regard. At least, it passed the "smell test" containing little or no uninformed speculation and drivel. Just the facts. Which was refreshing.

 

[FLY_USMC]

I too have heard absolutely nothing about this except for knowing the guy that it happened to. It would be unfortunate if the RAG Stud's head rolls for this. On one hand you have a student that is still technically in training....and in the RAG none-the-less. And on the other hand you have someone that was less than a month from the fleet. Glass half full/half empty and I can see things going both ways.

 

[picklesuit]

I too have heard absolutely nothing about this except for knowing the guy that it happened to. It would be unfortunate if the RAG Stud's head rolls for this. On one hand you have a student that is still technically in training....and in the RAG none-the-less. And on the other hand you have someone that was less than a month from the fleet. Glass half full/half empty and I can see things going both ways.

He has wings, he is responsible for his aircraft...

 

[MasterBates]

He signed the A-sheet, he is responsible for his aircraft...

Fixed it for you.

 

[Dirty]

As corporate as this sounds I'd like to point something out. The swiss cheese is real. 9.9 times out of 10 your going to dodge the bullet, it's that tenth time you'd better be on your A-game. Sometimes shit just happens, but other times (And most mishaps I've read about) there were causal factors that led up to the event, whether maintenance, readiness or crew related there usually was a time to fold the cards before pigeon holing yourself into a box that had no escape. These planes are getting old, sometimes the ADB is a novella, sometimes the hair on you neck will stand straight up. Think about it, tuck away your "what if's" and remember that gravity and inertia do not discriminate....

 

[exhelodrvr]

As corporate as this sounds I'd like to point something out. The swiss cheese is real. 9.9 times out of 10 your going to dodge the bullet, it's that tenth time you'd better be on your A-game. Sometimes shit just happens, but other times (And most mishaps I've read about) there were causal factors that led up to the event, whether maintenance, readiness or crew related there usually was a time to fold the cards before pigeon holing yourself into a box that had no escape. These planes are getting old, sometimes the ADB is a novella, sometimes the hair on you neck will stand straight up. Think about it, tuck away your "what if's" and remember that gravity and inertia do not discriminate....

Absolutely - there is usually a "chain of controllable events" in a mishap; if any individual link is "broken" the mishap doesn't happen.

 

[ghost]

The JAGMAN Investigation is publicly available. Reading through it there were a lot of events that changing one might have prevented the mishap. The Pilots statement to the investigation is also available.

 

[a_m]

The SIR is an eye-opening way to see how many bad decisions can be made.

 

[picklesuit]

The JAGMAN Investigation is publicly available. Reading through it there were a lot of events that changing one might have prevented the mishap. The Pilots statement to the investigation is also available.

Good read and a real eye-opener as to how all of the "holes in the swiss-cheese" can align... Thanks for the post.
Pickle

 

[FlyinSpy]

Good read and a real eye-opener as to how all of the "holes in the swiss-cheese" can align... Thanks for the post.
Pickle

Since I had never actually read a complete JAGMAN before, this was one of the more useful links I've ever clicked through to on AW.

One question: I was surprised that there was a "Recommendations" section at the end; I had thought that JAGMANs were really about "findings of fact", and that something like "recommendations" would have been out-of-scope - left to the leadership / chain of command, based on whatever conclusions the JAGMAN reached. Are recommendations always included at the end, or is that an optional step? And if they are always there, do they tend to be always followed?

 

[Godspeed]

Read the JAGMAN Investigation, pilot's statement and listened to the audio.... The toughest part for me to read was in the JAGMAN investigation.... It seemed that they were busting the MS's balls for not "reading the notes, cautions, and warnings" associated with the EP.

It seems with these investigations there is zero "slack" given in regards to the realistic elements of handling a complex EP with only seconds to spare. It's as if these investigations are extensively comprehensive yet they leave out the status quo. Also they busted the MP on the fact that he didn't break out his PCL.

Would someone with 10,000 hours in the hornet trying to intercept a bingo profile with a failing engine, squirrely fuel indications to boot, bad weather, while coordinating with SOCAL and Mirimar simultaneously have the coordination to open and flip through the PCL? I'm not suggesting it's impossible, I'm just wondering if it is realistic.

It's obvious that these investigations are made in order to improve everything from training to maintanance, which makes great sense. I just have a hard time passing judgement on people in circumstances like this....

/End of worthless .02 from the non-winged guy