So when an ensign shoots himself in the leg, will the ship's captain be standing on the catwalk with a 9mm?
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No weapons for E-4 and below on watch
- Thread starter CommodoreMid
- Start date
More rent-a-cops, fewer MAs, condition three carry, fewer officers/enlisted packing heat while on "watch", heavy restrictions on privately owned firearms on base...a small band of rednecks could invade a military installation if they really wanted to.
The Navy been pretty terrible with weapons qualifications, so this isn't surprising at all. I wonder if it will dawn on them that the NKO weapons course in place of actual classroom safety instruction prior to handling weapons is a big part of the problem... probably not. Every time I had a pistol qual, I had to do an NKO safety course for the M9 even though I was getting the qual on the M11.
As for you- you should consider yourself lucky that they grudgingly trust you with a com box... nothing like the blindest, most uncoordinated, member of the crew playing with their weapon seven feet away from the back of your head during transit to give you a warm fuzzy. Thankfully they child proof the magazines.
4 out of 5 incidents going back 1 year were M240 related. Considering there are less M240s up at any time than any other weapon on a ship(including the other CSW, the M2), I'd say the problem is pretty obvious.
For somebody who has a clue how the M240 works, it is pretty hard to have an ND. However, for a sailor who handled the M240 for the first time a year ago, is "PQS qualified", and has only handled closed bolt weapons since, it is pretty confusing.
Add the fact the officers who own shipboard CSWs (WEPS/GUNNOs) have probably never shot a CSW in their entire naval career, and who could not tell you the Condition Codes, load/unload procedures, or perform a dis/assembly, and you've set them up for failure. IMHO.
For somebody who has a clue how the M240 works, it is pretty hard to have an ND. However, for a sailor who handled the M240 for the first time a year ago, is "PQS qualified", and has only handled closed bolt weapons since, it is pretty confusing.
Add the fact the officers who own shipboard CSWs (WEPS/GUNNOs) have probably never shot a CSW in their entire naval career, and who could not tell you the Condition Codes, load/unload procedures, or perform a dis/assembly, and you've set them up for failure. IMHO.
There actually are sustainment training requirements. However, when the only documentation Big Navy wants from the ship is a piece of paper signed by the GMC saying that SN Shmuckatelli shot, and the WEPS decides to play "see no evil, hear no evil", gundecking is too easy.
phrogpilot73
Well-Known Member
Slap the magazine
Pull the charging handle
Observe the chamber
Release the charging handle
Tap the forward assist
Shoot to kill
Who needs proficiency when you have Marine Corps drill instructors? I haven't used that acronym in probably a decade - but thanks to my drill instructors on Parris Island, it's burned deep, deep within my brain.
Sadly it's not just the junior enlisted who have these issues. Everyone from Aircrewman who are supposed to be proficient having ND's with M11's and .50's to an O-6 leaving a hole in a ready room chair have happened in the not too distant past.
Oh and my favorite part of the article.
"and to order ships to fully qualify their watchstanding teams."
Shouldn't you be qualified with a weapon before being handed one to stand watch with anyway? I thought that was already mandatory????
Oh and my favorite part of the article.
"and to order ships to fully qualify their watchstanding teams."
Shouldn't you be qualified with a weapon before being handed one to stand watch with anyway? I thought that was already mandatory????
Oh Yeah?
Maybe....but we are damn well qualified in 20mm at 400 kts. when the bell rings. As the venerable A4s says - "Believe it"!:icon_tong
BzB
Aircrewman? Pilots at the range are the worst
Maybe....but we are damn well qualified in 20mm at 400 kts. when the bell rings. As the venerable A4s says - "Believe it"!:icon_tong
BzB
Aircrewman? Pilots at the range are the worst
Oh, I have no doubt about that. I was just pointing out the broad range of personnel involved. Said O-6 was a pilot. Though to the best of my knowledge so far only an aircrewman has put a hole in an aircraft from the inside out while in flight.
Oh, I have no doubt about that. I was just pointing out the broad range of personnel involved. Said O-6 was a pilot. Though to the best of my knowledge so far only an aircrewman has put a hole in an aircraft from the inside out while in flight.
Would have loved to been on ICS for that one...
That's it. Rent a cops. I can see them now telling a sailor late at night coming aboard. Hey, you didn't really salute that well when you came across the brow. What's you name sailor?
Seriously- even in the modern business world knee jerk reactions to "incidents" are becoming more common place rather than the exception. It's a terrible blame everyone before something happens mentality. How about train and retrain at least twice a year?
This is exactly it. This policy isn't about the E-4's and below, this is a lesson being taught to the leadership on these boats.
Yep. We got to qual with the .38 at AOCS but I didn't pick up a (Navy issued) weapon for another 4 years until ODS when we "qualed" off the fantail of the ship with the squadron's .38 Chief's Specials. The majority of us quickly put those back in the cruise box and (with CAG Fallon's approval) carried our personal weapons (still have the Argie Hi-Power I carried)
Fast forward another 5 years and we have the M11 prior to a SEA det and have to go qual at NS Anacostia at their indoor range. After the mandatory 3 hour "use of deadly force" lecture (Um, buddy if I have this in my hands and not my SV-2 believe me - deadly force is authorized!
) the qual was actually pretty good. Weak hand, double tap with magazine changed, timed shoot in various light conditions, clearing stoppages with one hand, not SEAL stuff but basically good stuff.Only time I got to qual with the M-16 was when we went to Beale and swapped a bunch of patches and ball caps for range time and at Ellsworth with a broken jet and a bored USAF range group.
Anyone who serves in any branch of the military should expect to come out with the basic capability to handle and shoot a handgun / rifle and shotgun. It's a basic skill.
And I haven't seen an ARGIE-licensed Browning Hi-Power for a long, long time .... BUT:
... fuckin' A, younger Bruddah (that is a technical term, btw). ANYONE WHO SERVES IN THE U.S. MILITARY ... and does not posses a basic, inherent, came-to-the-party-with, or ... a trained-to-proficiency, learned, practiced knowledge and familiarity w/ a variety of personal small-arms ...
... should be sellin' ladies' shoes @ Nordstrom's.