North Korea Just Attacked South Korean Island w/ Arty. 4 DEAD. "Vipers" Scrambled

[The Chief]

...... At least we know we have the skills to do it now ....

Not exactly the reason we wimped out. Nation was bleeding with horrid news accounts of on-going Tet-Offensive, with Mr. Cronkite et al saying the NVA was kicking our collective butts all over SVN. Pres Johnson would not allow Air Power over NVN, for any reason. Sanctuaries all around.

Big E has just left Sasebo, 300 miles or so from Wonson Harbour ringed with about 700 operational A/C with a very effective radar/comms network. NCA considered nukes, but that was quickly ruled out and a prohibition against anyone saying they were considered.

Then armed with all information that was on the Pueblo when captured, regarding our ELINT flights by VQ1 (routes, policies, ROE, Names of crews, targets etc), the NKAF were just waiting, Lo, less than 5 months after the Pueblo Crew were released, the ambushed with MIG 17's the unarmed slow moving EC-121M, murdering the entire crew.

And this was only about 5 months after the USS Liberty was attacked. Again, an unarmed ship.

I hope today is better, but doubt it.

Sad

 

[phrogdriver]

At least this is getting the media attention it deserves...after they deal with the jawbone that isn't Natalee Holloway's and Miley Cyrus's birthday!

 

[jmcquate]

Don't forget the Royal waste of money.......ah wedding.

 

[statesman]

It's interesting that Pyongyang has been so offensive lately... I may have a short memory but I don't recall the North Korean's doing this sort of thing so often in the past 15 or so years.

For instance I don't recall much more than chest pounding throughout the Bush years, and even pre-9/11 I don't N. Korea ever sinking a ship or firing artillery.

 

[The Chief]

It's interesting that Pyongyang has been so offensive lately... I may have a short memory

A lot, or more accurately, most incidents do not make our news. Almost daily DPRK agents are captured in the south. So many incidents of DPRK agents kidnapping Japanese Nationals in Japan and schlepting them to NK. In fact, this is a huge sticking point in US/Japan relations; that is Japan, wants the US to do more to obtain the return of those kidnapped and to include the issue in not only bi-lateral talks but with the 6 party talks. All that said, these actions are an esaulation, in my view, at the behest of PRC. PRC wants US military out of ROK in fact, out of asia.

 

[jmcquate]

It's interesting that Pyongyang has been so offensive lately... I may have a short memory but I don't recall the North Korean's doing this sort of thing so often in the past 15 or so years.

For instance I don't recall much more than chest pounding throughout the Bush years, and even pre-9/11 I don't N. Korea ever sinking a ship or firing artillery.

Kim's idiot kid is slated to take over and there are....well, tensions.

 

[gaijin6423]

Chief is dead on accurate in his assessment/statement. On a language studies abroad program in japan in 2003, we went to see a NK raiding ship that was sunk by the JMSDF (I think) that was caught during its exfil phase. The Japanese raised it and put it on display. I would never have known anything about it, but I watched NHK in college.

The Chinese want us out of the area, so I think it will be interesting to see how their aspirations of being the regional authority play into this.

 

[phrogdriver]

Fastest way to get the US out of Korea is to get rid of the threat that keeps us there. If China really has the long-term in mind, which they are famous for, maybe they will stop being obstinate and clear the way for a non-loony government in NK.

 

[mmx1]

VBS did a "hilarious" documentary on North Korea a few years ago. What a fucking shithole...there's just no way NK has any sort of legitimate capability of sustaining a real deal war. I honestly feel bad for the common citizen of that country though.

Here's a clip showing the VBS crew visiting the USS Pueblo and the ridiculous propaganda they have to sit through:

http://www.vbs.tv/newsroom/vice-guide-to-north-korea-4-of-14

And yet their nuclear plant is surprisingly modern.

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/11/23/north.korea.nuclear.facility/

 

[Shpion1]

Then armed with all information that was on the Pueblo when captured, ...Sad

Then with the codes that Johnny Walker provided they were reading our mail for years. Below is my take on the situation that I put on the USNI Blog. Don't hold much hope for a resolution, but likely more negotiations, and further escalation from the DPRK if they don't get what they want.

Not sure what is surprising from these recent actions from the North Koreans. History tells them that when they act belligerent, irresponsible and basically like a kid throwing food on the floor, then other nations come asking how they can please them. This usually tends to lead to increased assistance and help, money, food, oil, and maybe a couple light water reactors.

This time of the year it's getting cold in North Korea and the food stores are probably pretty lacking. Undergoing a regime leadership transition also needs some negotiations to show the youngster’s mettle.

Think the last round of the Six Party Talks was about 3 years ago, and the DPRK needs them restarted for multiple reasons including those above. So, they decide to do what they've always done, act like a spoiled kid. Sink a ROK ship, killing tens of sailors. Invite a well known American Scientist (who happened to be director of Los Alamos) to witness thousands of new centrifuges, and then lob some arty onto ROK territory using exercises that are held fairly often as an excuse. What is the Chinese reaction: Start Six Party Talks right away? A ventriloquist puppet would not have reacted just as swiftly. (who is the puppeteer though?)

Last but not least is the ROK reaction to this and previous provocation. Also not surprising. What should they do? Start a war? Even if they win, they are scared to death of the economic impact reunification will have. Germany, the strongest economy in Europe during its reunification with DDR is still paying the price. Reunification SCARES the bejeezus out of the ROK. Similarly, China does not want millions of DPRK refugees crossing the Yalu river. On the other hand, having a thorn in the side of the US and ROK in the form of DPRK makes sense for them, and for the time being they are happy to keep the status quo. Only a unified STRONG response by the US/ROK and JAPAN will force the Chinese to change their tact and support of the hermit kingdom.

So not really surprised by any of the recent actions. Waiting to see what the response is. And if it’s deemed insufficient by the Kims (Really just KJI, but giving KJU a little credit) I would expect further escalations, including possible another detonation. It’s not like the 23 million North Koreans are going to feed themselves or the government is going to do it…and bark is getting scarce….

 

[statesman]

A lot, or more accurately, most incidents do not make our news. Almost daily DPRK agents are captured in the south. So many incidents of DPRK agents kidnapping Japanese Nationals in Japan and schlepting them to NK. In fact, this is a huge sticking point in US/Japan relations; that is Japan, wants the US to do more to obtain the return of those kidnapped and to include the issue in not only bi-lateral talks but with the 6 party talks. All that said, these actions are an esaulation, in my view, at the behest of PRC. PRC wants US military out of ROK in fact, out of asia.

I've definitely heard of N. K. being very active in the region and pulling of some very devious stuff... I suppose maybe the better way to characterize N. K. behavior is being far more high profile. Sinking a ship and firing artillery into S. K. are certainly more overtly aggressive than the more clandestine activities I have heard about in the past... Like I said I may have a short memory, but these aren't the types of things I remember N. K. trying to pull...

 

[The Chief]

I've definitely heard ...

Well, perception I guess. But building a nuclear program, testing nuclear weapons, firing ballistic missles ..... All the while the world blusters and is very indignant, declaring " .... you shall not get away with this ..." and all they while they just keep on keeping on. I agree it quite different when you start lobbing 105mm WP shells down range and torpedoes at ships. Their view must be, something to the effect of " ..... what in the world do we need to do to get their attention ..... ".

 

[exhelodrvr]

Several assassination attempts in the 60's and 70's

 

[Flash]

With a very young son taking over in the North Korea this is a pretty convenient way for the Kim family to ensure that lil' Kim takes his proper place as the head of the world's most spectacularly awesome country. To think that China is somehow pulling the strings is a bit simplistic, especially when all this does is reinforce the South Korea leadership's belief that American troops should remain and overall command of all forces in South Korea should stay in US hands for now. Does it make any sense to try and get your neighbor to give up their best weapon by shooting at them? Even in the bizarro world that is North Korea that doesn't make a whole lot of sense and especially in the much more rational regime that is the PRC. Plus, what levers does China really have with North Korea? Maybe watch for a nuke test next, another glorious example of the Great Leader's leadership, leading the valiant soldiers of the motherland in battle against the imperialistic, bloodthirsty Americans and their traitorous South Korean stooges.

 

[Calculon]

Several assassination attempts in the 60's and 70's

Yep they sent a 31 man commando team to assassinate Korea's president in 1967 or thereabouts.

All I do know is that if hostilities ever broke out, it'll be great to have the ROK Marines with us... those guys are some tough hombres.