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Not enough Academy applicants?

IRfly

Registered User
None
wink said:
But it does in the sense that the critics are just as uninformed. An uniformed opinion is no opinion at all. It is worthless, except in the case of politics where, as you say, the voters matter. So a poorly informed public with baseless criticisim can put pressure on weak politicians to change policy so they can keep their jobs.

To continue with the analogy: I, a know nothing pilot, go to the mechanic's boss and tell him that the mechanic does not know what he is doing. The mechanic's supervisor respects my opinion, even though it is uninformed, and fires the mech. Didn't make any difference how good a job the mech was doing as long as the supervisor believed me. People that have strong opinions about highly specialized subjects such as the war, but have no specialized training or insight should have their opinions greatly discounted, if not disregarded. And those that have the training or insight (senators) should be required to suggested alternative courses of action with their criticisim.

All true...But there's a flip side to this, as well. It's not only the critics that are uninformed--many of the supporters also fall into that category. And these supporters can keep pressure on weak politicians to continue to pursue poor policies that could eventually run the country into the ground in order to keep their jobs (because if they break ranks they get stabbed in the back by their own party in the next primaries).
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
IRfly said:
All true...But there's a flip side to this, as well. It's not only the critics that are uninformed--many of the supporters also fall into that category. And these supporters can keep pressure on weak politicians to continue to pursue poor policies that could eventually run the country into the ground in order to keep their jobs (because if they break ranks they get stabbed in the back by their own party in the next primaries).

Just because a supporter is not properly informed doesn't mean that they fall into the same catagory as the uninformed critic. Many supporters recognize that they can't adequtely know all they should to be truely critical, so they support the decisions and policies of their elected representatives and specialists that have that information and/or training.

If public opinion on the war has shifted as much as some report, then any politician that wishes to "break ranks" can be assured of majority public support. Nothing to fear. The fact is the American public is not as much anti Iraq war as they are anti losing. They will support troop losses as long as they are see progress to victory. You may argue that the administration hasn't done a very good job making the case and promoting the small vicotries along the way. But no poltician will get anywhere with a cut and run policy. Few serious political critics promote retreat for that reason. And the rest of the critical political class will not put forward any other alternatives to the current conduct of the war. Cowards! put up or sut up! Unless I am will to learn how to change a hydraulic pump and get in there and do it differently then the mech, I don't have any business telling him how to do his job.
 

Steve Wilkins

Teaching pigs to dance, one pig at a time.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
mbeaser said:
If you think middle class, or even great scholarships, makes college easily affordable I'd like to know where.
University of Florida is arguably one of the best deals in the country for in state tuition. I never paid over $1200 for tuition per semester with 16-17 credits each. Definitely doable for those folks who are M O T I V A T E D!
 

IRfly

Registered User
None
wink said:
Just because a supporter is not properly informed doesn't mean that they fall into the same catagory as the uninformed critic. Many supporters recognize that they can't adequtely know all they should to be truely critical, so they support the decisions and policies of their elected representatives and specialists that have that information and/or training.

If public opinion on the war has shifted as much as some report, then any politician that wishes to "break ranks" can be assured of majority public support. Nothing to fear. The fact is the American public is not as much anti Iraq war as they are anti losing. They will support troop losses as long as they are see progress to victory. You may argue that the administration hasn't done a very good job making the case and promoting the small vicotries along the way. But no poltician will get anywhere with a cut and run policy. Few serious political critics promote retreat for that reason. And the rest of the critical political class will not put forward any other alternatives to the current conduct of the war. Cowards! put up or sut up! Unless I am will to learn how to change a hydraulic pump and get in there and do it differently then the mech, I don't have any business telling him how to do his job.

Maybe some nice moderator (are you a moderator, Wink?) could split this off for us into another thread.
First, it's not true that politicians have nothing to fear. Congressmen are elected by roughly half a million voters, give or take. If the majority of those voters are either uneducated critics or uninformed supporters, then that Congressman had better toe the line with those voters. You know this, Wink--how much control parties have over their politicians, especially with a president like Mr. Bush, who is SOLIDLY popular in certain regions. Besides that, there's the new epithet that the right-wing smear machine has come up with for anyone who isn't omniscient from the day they take office: flip-flopper . Chuck Hagel is a brave man, but one who doesn't stand for reelection until 2008, by which time the political landscape could change significantly.

I see no difference between the chattering masses against Pres. Bush now and the chattering masses against Pres. Clinton back 8 years ago. I also don't see why you would accept accept the option of supporting the administration's policy on, shall we say, faith, while saying that people who chose to believe folks like Hans Blix (no one knew better about Iraq's weapons programs than he did), Eric Shinseki, Anthony Zinni, Colin Powell (only recently; he's a flip-flopper), etc...

Finally, each politician has to deal with two things: reality and public opinion (which usually don't coincide). You're absolutely right that Americans don't want to lose, but you know what? That might just be too damn bad. We might very well be in a situation where victory by any measure previously set forth (democratic Iraq, stable Iraq, unified Iraq even) is just plain unforeseeable and perhaps impossible, no matter how hard Americans believe and wish it to be otherwise.
 

mbeaser

Registered User
Steve Wilkins said:
University of Florida is arguably one of the best deals in the country for in state tuition. I never paid over $1200 for tuition per semester with 16-17 credits each. Definitely doable for those folks who are M O T I V A T E D!

Unfortunately, tuition isn't the only piece of the pie. There's also the infamous room and board. Although tuition that cheap helps a lot. If you live in Florida :)
 

fredolipo

Registered User
OCS-Statistics?

The Chief said:
Class of 2009 Applicants and Nominees

Applicants (includes nominees) 11,259
Number of applicants with an official nomination 4,320
Nominees qualified scholastically, medically and in physical aptitude 1,812
Offers of admission 1,503
Admitted 1,220

Random historical applicants:

Class of 2006 12,333
Class of 2008 14,425

Based in this limited sample, I see no real trend.

Do you know the stats for OCS?
 

The Chief

Retired
Contributor
fredolipo said:
Do you know the stats for OCS?

Do not have that, will root around and see if I can find. Have some contacts that should have some if not absolute numbers.
 

The Chief

Retired
Contributor
IRfly said:
On the topic of fewer academy applicants.... If indeed the number of academy applicants is significantly down this year and in the next year or two (big IF), then the 800-pound gorilla that can't be ignored is definitely Iraq. ...... parsimonious.

Lets get our arms around that 800lb gorilla once more. Help me understand.

In 1994, Class of 1998, USNA admitted 10.64373 percent of all those that applied.

In 2005, Class of 2009 USNA admitted 10.83577 percent of all those that applied.

My question is .2 percentage points significant? If you have almost ten applicants (Pre screened applicants by the way) for each slot, is that too many or too few? I fail to get the argument.

I took look at a number of years, the 10 - 11% acceptance rate is about average. It is about the same acceptance ratio you find at MIT or other top level school.

Further, the attrition rate at USNA is also about the same over the years. About 75% - 76% admitted on I-day, go on to graduate.

What else should I be looking at?
 
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