OCS Video

[Cordespc]

Navy Bootcamp is indeed 8 weeks in length.http://www.nsgreatlakes.navy.mil/rtcfaq.htm#Basic

I'm a graduate of Div 480 (Nov '98) and can honestly say that bootcamp barely prepared me to strip and wax a deck (which I got much better at as a young airman).

By the time I became a First Class, I had learned a lot about how things work and I felt like I was almost ready to be an Officer. Now that I am a Marine Officer, it is really apparent how little I knew then, and how much more I still have to learn.

Developing leadership is a continual process that will last your entire career. I feel lucky that I went to Marine Corps OCS in the respect that it was very challenging, and probably (initially) made me a more disciplined and knowledgeable Officer than the next guy who didn't. At the end of the day, I don't think commissioning source is a significant indicator of how an Officer will perform in the fleet. Since so much of what we do is learned by experience on the job, I think the only real determining factor is the level of leadership potential and dedication of each person.

Cheers/ Paul

 

[Thisguy]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8012082959495629056&q=Navy+OCS

Did they modify this to be just an OCS video (vice AOCS)? I remember the Macklin first person stuff, but the video I watched had a chief that was yelling at them to.

 

[S.O.B.]

I'm not exactly the most physically fit sailor in the navy, and I was hoping someone that has just gone through NSI could give me some info about the PT portion (I'll be starting May 21st). Here's my questions...

-When you show up, do you have to be able to pass the PRT, or just be within BCA standards?
-I've seen 3.2 mile run everywhere, but what kind of a pace do they run that in?
-When you graduate, do you have to score a good low in each category (pushups, situps, and run), or do you just have to have an overall score of good low?

I'd appreciate the clarification. I've been trying to prep myself for this over the past couple months, but I've never been a very good runner. Thanks for the help-

OCS would be perfect for this guy.

 

[Country Boy]

I will put out a question to whoever thinks that STA-21 people are getting substandard training...and I am not being facetious here because I would really like to know.What about OCS will I miss out on by going through NSI?

NSI was and is a joke. It was originally only meant to be like a C school where the STA-21 guys could get most of the naval science courses out of the way. Along the way, they discovered that a lot of the "high quality" sailors they were getting were having more and more discipline issues and decided to lock things down into what it is now. Even with all of your so-called "Seal-run PT," NSI is still a joke. We had an EOD diver running ours and it wasn't any harder than PT should have been. The classes were a joke and the instructors were mediocre at best. It was definitely not the experience that I was expecting.
As far as the original topic, I also agree that everyone should have to go through OCS.

 

[FMRAM]

So OCS pt is harder than NSI pt...that is what I will be missing out on. Well I guess that few weeks of hard pt is really going to hurt me in the long run and I should reject STA-21 and apply to OCS.

COME ON GUYS!!!! MAKE A MORE CONVINCING ARGUMENT FOR OCS THAN THE PT IS HARDER!!!!!

Here is my opinion...the older guys (no disrespect) think that if they had things rough, than everyone should have it the same way.

You know I am sure there is some academy officer here that is saying to himself "OCS and NSI are a joke compared to the 4 years of sh!t I endured".

Here is another question for all the OCS guys...

Did you have to compete with the other OCSers for a SNA or NFO slot?

Wouldn't you have rather had the Navy PAY YOU to go to college along with them picking up the tab for the majority of tuition/books cost?

Wouldn't it have been nice to already have a shot at SNA or NFO without having to constantly stress about you grades?

Would you rather have focused on a major that YOU were interested in, instead of thinking "what would look good on a package"?

If yes was the answer to any of the above questions, then you will understand, why STA-21 was the right choice for me and I refuse to accept that I was cheated.

 

[skim]

Did they modify this to be just an OCS video (vice AOCS)? I remember the Macklin first person stuff, but the video I watched had a chief that was yelling at them to.

I just watched the one you are talking about about 2 weeks ago and I think they just updated it to be an OCS video. The Marine DI and Chief seemed like an odd pair to me.

 

[C6Driver]

NSI was and is a joke. It was originally only meant to be like a C school where the STA-21 guys could get most of the naval science courses out of the way. Along the way, they discovered that a lot of the "high quality" sailors they were getting were having more and more discipline issues and decided to lock things down into what it is now. Even with all of your so-called "Seal-run PT," NSI is still a joke. We had an EOD diver running ours and it wasn't any harder than PT should have been. The classes were a joke and the instructors were mediocre at best. It was definitely not the experience that I was expecting.
As far as the original topic, I also agree that everyone should have to go through OCS.

The problem with the training of officers in general is that those officers that choose to go to ROTC, NSI, etc. are either on the ROAD program or looking for an easy shore duty to get a Masters. "Big Navy" if it wants to improve the quality of production should make training a requirement for advancement. It looks good for our enlisted members to push boots, why not reward our great leaders/officers with good duty, and send them to train our future. Just a thought.


I think some of the OCS arguments are valid but dont think that it is the end all be all. I have worked with and trained with the good and the bad from a myriad of different commissioning sources and you cannot suggest that OCS would have made all the bad good and the good better. Some of the problem lies in the standards and standardization. I think it is too easy to get STA-21 as apparent by the post about getting mins on a PRT during NSI. Officer programs should be a weeding/cultivating process which goes back to my original point about good officers training the future. Thats my longwinded 2 cents. For the min PRT guy, go for the Outstanding Low, not the Good Low, and be an example for the sailors you will one day lead!

 

[jg5343]

I have been to bootcamp, 'A' school, dive school, flight school, and numerous other military schools/training throughout my 10 years in the Navy. I will have to say with out a doubt, OCS demanded more attention to detail than any other school I have been to (or heard about). All of my prior E buddies that went STA21 said NSI was a joke, and the pt there given by the diver/SEAL/EOD tech will never compare to that of those respective schools. PT at OCS was a cake walk compared to dive school.
There is no way to explain it unless you have been, but that 6"x6" the gunny was talking about, really means 6"x6". No more, no less, or its a hit. There is ZERO tolerance on the measurement. That's for every single measurement in your locker, on your bed, on your table, on your uniform, and even on your furniture placement. It is VERY anal. You spend weeks preparing for inspections. No one will ever convince me otherwise that OCS was the most attention to detail driven place in the military. Period.
Go to work tomorrow and ask a few guys what the measurements are supposed to be on their cover. 10 to 1 an OCS grad will not be the first person to not know. Then for fun, ask one what his DIs name was. "Class drill instructor Gunnery Sergeant Hecht, United States Marine Corps" and I will never forget that sh!t!

 

[eddie]

A related Question??

I believe this was discussed maybe a year ago, but I can't find it, so I'm going to ask.

AOCS and OCS; why were they seperate, and why did they combine?

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Steve I think we actually agree with each other...
I think that enlisted sailors who obtain their degree should go through OCS...to learn how to be an officer...as well as a refresher on the attention to detail. STA-21 guys (who do not have their degree) will have to go through NSI and however many years it takes in ROTC and college.

No, actually we don't agree. You think that NSI is a suitable substitute for OCS simply because you will also have to do two additional years of ROTC.

What about OCS will I miss out on by going through NSI?

An experience that will challenge you physically, mentally, and emotionally....all at the same time. It's not about OCS preparing you or not preparing you to be an officer in today's Navy. It's about providing future naval officers a fairly standarized experience to see if you have the intestinal fortitude to stick it out when things get tough. I think every prospective officer should have to prove themselves in this manner.

I am not arguing the validity of any notions relating to which commissioning source is better or what types of officers perform better in the fleet. It's a moot point for this discussion and any attempt to drag it in that direction is simply a distraction from the main issue.

Here is my opinion...the older guys (no disrespect) think that if they had things rough, than everyone should have it the same way.

You know I am sure there is some academy officer here that is saying to himself "OCS and NSI are a joke compared to the 4 years of sh!t I endured".

It's not about that either. I didn't go to OCS, yet I sit here trying to convince you (and others) that all prospective officers should be required to attend.

Here is another question for all the OCS guys...

Did you have to compete with the other OCSers for a SNA or NFO slot?

I don't know if your question is rhetorical or not, so I answer it anyway. OCS bubbas know what their designator is going to be prior to shipping off to OCS. They put in a package, just like you did for STA-21, request what designator they would like to be selected for.

Wouldn't you have rather had the Navy PAY YOU to go to college along with them picking up the tab for the majority of tuition/books cost?

Wouldn't it have been nice to already have a shot at SNA or NFO without having to constantly stress about you grades?

Would you rather have focused on a major that YOU were interested in, instead of thinking "what would look good on a package"?

Again, pick a different argument. Marine Corps MECPer's participate in ROTC, get paid by the governtment to get their education, and yet still have to go through their own version of OCS. And on top of that, those midshipmen who want to be Marines also have to participate in ROTC and attend OCS. They have the option of having a guaranteed flight spot after commissioning and TBS.

If yes was the answer to any of the above questions, then you will understand, why STA-21 was the right choice for me and I refuse to accept that I was cheated.

My answer to your above questions was "no" yet I still believe STA-21 is the right choice for you. It's a great program and you should be proud you were selected. It is NOT easy to get selected for that program. This doesn't mean you shouldn't have to attend OCS though, because IMO, you should.

The problem with the training of officers in general is that those officers that choose to go to ROTC, NSI, etc. are either on the ROAD program or looking for an easy shore duty to get a Masters.

I completely disagree with your assessment, especially as it applies to SWO's. SWO's are required to obligate themselves for being a DH if they want orders to a ROTC unit as an instructor. Additionally, it is not a matter of looking for an easy shore duty so they can get a Masters, but rather a good opportunity to get the Masters at all. I'm not saying that a tighter selection process isn't worthwhile. When I requested to do my shore duty with OLA (Office of Legislative Affairs) in DC, I had to interview with an an admiral and much of his staff. Of those who wanted the position, four of us were selected to interview for the spot. I didn't get selected because I wasn't willing to obligate myself to being a DH. You win some, you lose some I guess. The point is, I wouldn't mind seeing a selective process like that for choosing our ROTC instructors. Many folks want the job. Those that are interested should get screened an a certain number selected to interview at NETC. Not everybody will get the job. Make something like that exclusive and career enhancing, and the best and brightest will come.

 

[jg5343]

I think I agree with Steve. He has been saying this for a while, and I think it is starting to make sense to me. All officers going through the same school would certainly set an even starting ground. OCS could be that school. Like TBS for the Marines.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

I think I agree with Steve. He has been saying this for a while, and I think it is starting to make sense to me. All officers going through the same school would certainly set an even starting ground. OCS could be that school. Like TBS for the Marines.

No....GCE...GCE

For the unitiated, that's Gross Conceptual Error.

TBS is a program of instruction that trains Marines the fundamentals of being a Marine. OCS (USMC version) trains candiates so that they are ready to start being Marines. I am in no way implying that Navy OCS should be the common ground training for the Navy that TBS is for the Navy. While I think in general it isn't necessarily a bad idea to have such a training program in the Navy where all officers must attend (AFTER commissioning), OCS is not that program.

 

[Steve Wilkins]

Got this via PM and figured if one person had the question, others may too.

I saw that you posted this to The OCS Video Thread:
"obligate myself to being a DH"

What does that mean? I assume that DH stands for Department Head, but I don't seem to understand the context.

I didn't want to obligate myself to having to be a department head (DH) for 3+ years before I was even able to have any time on shore duty. Sea duty can wear you down, so the last thing I wanted to do at that particular time (my second divo sea tour) was to obligate myself to being a DH at sea. I wanted to wait till I had some time on shore duty before I made the decision. OLA wanted "career" individuals and unfortunately, I didn't meet their criteria at the time. That's the context.

 

[C6Driver]

I completely disagree with your assessment, especially as it applies to SWO's. SWO's are required to obligate themselves for being a DH if they want orders to a ROTC unit as an instructor. Additionally, it is not a matter of looking for an easy shore duty so they can get a Masters, but rather a good opportunity to get the Masters at all. I'm not saying that a tighter selection process isn't worthwhile. When I requested to do my shore duty with OLA (Office of Legislative Affairs) in DC, I had to interview with an an admiral and much of his staff. Of those who wanted the position, four of us were selected to interview for the spot. I didn't get selected because I wasn't willing to obligate myself to being a DH. You win some, you lose some I guess. The point is, I wouldn't mind seeing a selective process like that for choosing our ROTC instructors. Many folks want the job. Those that are interested should get screened an a certain number selected to interview at NETC. Not everybody will get the job. Make something like that exclusive and career enhancing, and the best and brightest will come.

So what you are saying is that there needs to be better standards and career enhancing opportunitys for those we send to train our future officers? Is there an echo in here or is it just me? I may have missed a few minor details about SWO's but I have seen several very poor examples at my ROTC unit(all communitys all ranks) and others and know that it is death to a pilots career if he/she wants to command a squadron.

 

[C6Driver]

I think I agree with Steve. He has been saying this for a while, and I think it is starting to make sense to me. All officers going through the same school would certainly set an even starting ground. OCS could be that school. Like TBS for the Marines.

I agree with your comment though I think if we did something like that, the Academy grads would definitely not want to participate which would create a rift that I think has lessened over the past 100 years.