Officials: Pilot Of Downed F-16 Still Missing In Iraq

[MasterBates]

If he had come back, and made every promotion on 1st look, he would be a CAPT by now.

 

[joboy_2.0]

Didn't the Army lose a couple of Apache crews?
There was the CH-47 in Afghanistan or were you only reffering to Iraq?

I was thinking all conflicts since 9/11.

 

[jamnww]

I was thinking all conflicts since 9/11.

Unless I am wrong, the Army lost at least 2 Apaches w/crews in OIF (up till now) and as mentioned at least that CH-47 in OEF with all hands.

On top of that we have a CH-53 (weather) with all hands that was transporting that USMCR unit out of Columbus, OH. as well as at least one UH-60...

Site - Perhaps questionable

Ok, did some further research...go to Helicopter losses - Wiki and you will find the following information...

• 13 UH-60s
• 5 CH-47s
• 4 CH-46s
• 17 OH-58s
• 3 CH-53s
• 2 MH-53s
• 7 AH-1s
• 2 UH-1s
• 22 AH-64s

• F/A-18 Hornet: 3
• C-130 Hercules: 2
• A-10: 1
• AV-8 Harrier: 1
• F-14 Tomcat: 1
• F-15 Eagle: 1
• F-16 Falcon: 2
• S-3 Viking: 1

These numbers are already published on at the above address and include those crashes with survivors as well as those with loss of life, accidents and hostile fire...

 

[MasterBates]

And a 53 that went down with all hands in Iraq. And the 53-53 midair in Djubouit.

 

[Cobra Commander]

I just saw on the news that they found his remains. Really sad stuff. He had 5 kids. Just terrible.

 

[jamnww]

Also "At least 86 helicopters and 12 fixed-wing aircraft from both the American military and Coalition forces have crashed in Iraq since the 2003 invasion. More than 178 Coalition personnel have been killed in helicopter crashes since the invasion"

 

[RHPF]

Wow those are really high losses, much higher than I would have expected from reading the news/AW.

Terrible news. Can someone link the story of where/how they found him when its posted online? I am going to guess that insurgents took him from the crash site, but thats rather odd since he was reported already no longer living shortly after the crash. All in all sad news, especially to leave behind a family.

 

[Brett327]

Well I sure hope he didn't go MIA in OEF... given that took place in Afghanistan in 2001.

So Brett, what's your theory on Speicher? I mean, there's no doubt he's dead, but it's highly probable the Iraqis captured him at some point. Is it that hard to believe they held onto him for some time and then dumped him in a shallow grave?

I don't have a theory. My guess is that he probably died when his jet was shot down. Most of the suggestions to the contrary which I'm aware of are based on pretty sketchy, circumstantial interpretations of "clues." I'm calling Occam's razor on this one - just an opinion.

Brett

 

[wink]

A Viking loss in OIF/OEF. I never heard anything about that. Doesn't seem likely and certainly not from hostile fire.

 

[Huggy Bear]

3 Hornet losses! I don't think so. I only know of the one - a very sad and preventable loss.

 

[jamnww]

3 Hornet losses! I don't think so. I only know of the one - a very sad and preventable loss.

"May 2, 2005 - Two F/A-18C Block 39/40 Hornet fighter jets of VMFA-323, BuNos 164721 and 164732, collide over south-central Iraq, during sortie from USS Carl Vinson, killing the two pilots. "

"April 2, 2003 - F/A-18C Block 46 Hornet 164974 of VFA-195 shot down in error by Patriot missile 50 mi from Karbala, Iraq, killing the pilot. "

Maybe you missed the more recent one?

 

[Flash]

Unless I am wrong, the Army lost at least 2 Apaches w/crews in OIF (up till now) and as mentioned at least that CH-47 in OEF with all hands.

On top of that we have a CH-53 (weather) with all hands that was transporting that USMCR unit out of Columbus, OH. as well as at least one UH-60...

Site - Perhaps questionable

Ok, did some further research...go to Helicopter losses - Wiki and you will find the following information...

• 13 UH-60s
• 5 CH-47s
• 4 CH-46s
• 17 OH-58s
• 3 CH-53s
• 2 MH-53s
• 7 AH-1s
• 2 UH-1s
• 22 AH-64s

• F/A-18 Hornet: 3
• C-130 Hercules: 2
• A-10: 1
• AV-8 Harrier: 1
• F-14 Tomcat: 1
• F-15 Eagle: 1
• F-16 Falcon: 2
• S-3 Viking: 1

These numbers are already published on at the above address and include those crashes with survivors as well as those with loss of life, accidents and hostile fire...

That is the kicker, the list includes shoot downs and accidents. Jsut like the casualty list for Iraq, ~2887 in a recent count, includes people who have died in accidents, suicides, etc. That by no means lessens their sacrifice or the pain for their loved ones but it does provide some context, and a more complete story than just a number.

 

[Catmando]

While any and every loss is regrettable, and certainly tragic for family and friends, our losses – be it by accident or hostile fire - since 9/11 have fortunately been relatively light. For some perspective, I took a look at our Navy and Marine aircraft losses in Vietnam (which incidently pale in comparison to the Air Force losses).

USN fixed-wing carrier-based losses
A-1 Skyraider --65 total, 48 in combat
A-3 Skywarrior --7 total, 2 in combat
A-4 Skyhawk --282 total, 195 in combat
A-6 Intruder --62 total, 51 in combat
A-7 Corsair --100 total, 55 in combat
C-1 Trader --4 total, 0 in combat
C-2 Greyhound --1 total, 0 in combat
E-1 Tracer --3 total, 0 in combat
E-2 Hawkeye --2 total, 0 in combat
EKA-3 Skywarrior-- --2 lost, 0 in combat
EA-1 Skyraider --4 total, 1 in combat
F-4 Phantom --138 total, 75 in combat
F-8 Crusader --118 total, 57 in combat
KA-3 Skywarrior- --2 lost, 0 in combat
RA-5 Vigilante --27 total, 18 in combat
RF-8 Crusader --29 total, 19 in combat
S-2 Tracker --4 total, 2 in combat

USN fixed-wing shore-based
C-47 Skytrain (1)
OV-10 Bronco (7)
P-2 Neptune (4)
P-3 Orion (2)

USN rotary-wing
SH-2/UH-2 Sea Sprite-- --12 lost, 0 in combat
SH-3 Sea King-- --20 lost, 8 in combat

United States Marine Corps
A-4 Skyhawk 81
A-6 Intruder 25
C-117 Skytrain 2
EA-6 Prowler 2
EF-10 Skynight 5
F-4 Phantom 98
F-8 Crusader 21
KC-130 Hercules 4
O-1 Bird Dog 7
OV-10 Bronco 10
RF-4 Phantom 4
RF-8 Crusader 1
TA-4 Skyhawk 10
TF-9 Cougar 1

Then there was the Air Force which had incredible combat losses, including 17 B-52's, 382 F-4's, and 320 F-105's, among many others. Then there was the loss of 3,300 "Huey's."

http://www.answers.com/topic/aircraft-losses-of-the-vietnam-war
http://www.vhpa.org/heliloss.pdf

At one point, the US was losing 10 aircraft a day!
http://www.themilitarybookreview.com/html/Vietnamairlosses.shtml

 

[TurnandBurn55]

A-4s?? 195??? One HUNDRED and NINETY-FIVE?? Jesus Christ.

Yeah... but Iraq is the same as Vietnam

 

[wink]

Yikes, I have never seen the air losses in the aggregate. They can go on and on about how OIF has gone longer then WW II and Iraq is Viet Nam. But it sure ain't nothing like any previous conflict in terms of loss rates, in the air or on the ground.