Yep, but nobody had the internet or 24 hour cable news back then. Chalk those two up as force multipliers for the bad guys in this case.
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Officials: Pilot Of Downed F-16 Still Missing In Iraq
- Thread starter Birdman
- Start date
Yep, but nobody had the internet or 24 hour cable news back then. Chalk those two up as force multipliers for the bad guys in this case.
On the Army side, this website gives a pretty good indication of our aircrew losses in both recent and not-so-recent conflicts. Also shows when pilots are lost but not necessarily aircraft, i.e., when one pilot gets shot and the other flies home:
www.armyaircrews.com
Edit: The airframes being used right now are the Chinook, Blackhawk, Kiowa, Apache and Cayuse.
www.armyaircrews.com
Edit: The airframes being used right now are the Chinook, Blackhawk, Kiowa, Apache and Cayuse.
Pretty sure these were EA-6A "Electric Intruders" and not Prowlers. To this point there's not been a Prowler lost to enemy action.
Not sure about the C-1 but there were 3 C-2 loses in the Vietnam era. Three years in a row out there in the Vietnam area of ops....69-70-71 I believe. All were non-combat however or at least presumed to be.
You are probably correct. In fact contrary to my posted list, I remember from personal experience at least one tragic C-2 loss from that period.
Also, I believe Pugs in his post is correct regarding the Prowlers. I have read elsewhere and believe as he posted, "there has not been a Prowler lost to enemy action."
Any other additions or corrections are certainly welcome.
The list of Vietnam Air losses I posted was an edited, cut-and-paste from the link provided. It unfortunately seems to have a number of errors in it. However, lacking a more accurate list, and looking beyond the mistakes contained in this one, I believe it still gives some idea of the extraordinary variety and the large number of aircraft losses of that period.
http://www.answers.com/topic/aircraft-losses-of-the-vietnam-war
skidz
adrenaline junky
In what way? The lengthiness, the rumors that it was for a different cause then what was proposed, that the majority of the civilian population doesn't support it? One thing that is very different between this war and Vietnam, is that in Vietnam, the VC and NVA were not going to follow us home. In this war, the enemy WILL follow us home, and are already AT OUR HOME. That is the difference.
Oh boy...
Ya think???
"During the December 1995 survey, the Iraqis directed ICRC team members to the flight suit which was purportedly "found" by a Bedouin boy, but the official Casualty Identification Laboratory Hawaii (CILHI) examination of the suit concluded it showed minimal weathering and adherent soil. We believe the Iraqis planted the flight suit. Near the site where the Iraqis claimed the uniform was "discovered," a few samples of other pilot-related materials were found. Some or all of these items may not have originated in the area in which they were recovered, according to the investigation's results. US Navy experts assessed that the flight suit was the right type and the same size as the suit worn by LCDR Speicher. They also determined that the location and shape of the Velcro used to affix patches was correct for LCDR Speicher and his unit. The condition of the returned flight suit also indicates that the aviator was not in the aircraft at ground impact. Specialists determined that damage to the recovered flight suit indicates exposure to a few seconds of heat. Also, the flight suit showed only a trace of possible blood"
I'm looking forward as to what your interpretation as to what "Occam's razor" says about Saddam handing over a flight suit 4+ years after the fact, claiming it was "recently discovered", and yet forensic evidence doesn't support that fact...
I mean, my interpretation of "Occam's razor" would be that the Iraqis found him, captured him, and gave the US the flight suit to provide the illusion of cooperation...
When he actually died off is anyone's guess...
skidz
adrenaline junky
Didn't catch the sarcasm, my bad.
I guess I would have been preaching to the choir anyways.
It gets worse ... while the A-4 is generally recognized as having "kept the Navy in the air war" ... the total Navy COMBAT losses are well over 500 ... not counting the Marines.
That's a lot of airplanes, a lot of national treasure, and a lot guys ... a lot of guys ... especially when you walk away at the end with no final resolution or reward, except the comradeship and respect for one another.
It really does numb your mind...unbelievable that as a nation we let that kind of sacrifice go unrewarded militarily. Korea strikes me as very much the same and I have grave fears about our current involvements. Its almost as though we've gotten into a mindset that committing initially to the fight is enough. Desert Storm I showed traces of the same mindset...although we acheived our "political" objective, I have to see it has a hollow victory
Mine is that he died in the crash. It doesn't seem like any of the "evidence" is conclusive one way or another as to when he died. One could also debate the what advantages the Iraqis would gain by keeping him as a secret prisoner vice a bargaining chip in some kind of negotiation. Your average aviator is probably of only marginal value for extraction of intelligence, so I would think that the bargaining chip option would be the way Hussein would play things. Again, there's probably no way to really ever know what happened, but the prospect of a secret Iraqi conspiracy seems infinitely less probable.
Brett