One for the Army WO bubbas

[Uncle Fester]

For the Army Warrant pilot bubbas we have around here: my cousin's husband is apparently looking into Army Aviation. He's prior Navy (submariner, E-6),some college but no degree (thus not considering OCS). She's asking me some questions about the life and times of Army Warrant pilots, but my knowledge on the subject is scarce and third-hand at best.

Is the Army picking up many guys 'off the street' for WOCS? Is prior enlisted time in other services generally considered helpful, hurtful or neutral?

What's the deployment schedule like nowadays? Brutal, I'm sure, given all the Army guys we've had showing up here asking about lat-transfers into the Navy, but more specifically.

And what's the career track like for Warrants? Do you just go from unit to unit, or do you alternate tours with deploying and non-deploying (flight instructor or whatever) units? How much difference does your community make? IOW, is the life and career track of a Kiowa or Longbow guy that much different than an H-47 or H-60 guy?

Appreciate any knowledges. Right now all I can tell her is, "Flying's awesome...but have you ever been to Fort Hood in the summer?"

 

[GO_AV8_DevilDog]

From the horse's mouth

http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/prerequ/WO153A.html

EDIT*Just read through it all and realized it's not that helpful for all of your questions Fester, but I'll leave it up so anyone else interested can find it

 

[Lawman]

Right now the attitude at the school house is that selection is on a down trend. Every community in the Army is reportedly overstrength at the WOJG level even though they are paying big bonuses to guys to stay in after their 6 year commitment.

I can tell you the backgrounds you see at WOCS are pretty far and wide. One guy in my class was a Marine Machinegunner who got out for 8 years and doesnt have a degree. Another guy was 18 out of highschool. Its really got more to do with how strong your packet is vice what you did and where you came from. He made E-6 and did it in as heavily technical a field as subs so he shouldnt have a problem with any of the selection exams. Really the only thing that seems to be a big discriminator amongst guys who have deployments and prior service is your PT score. Its the easiest way for them to slim down the pile in a hurry so thats one area you want to make sure your solid in just so you dont get passed over without a glance. Overall it took me about 7 months to go from 0 to Meps on a bus but that was because I spent 3 months pulling teeth with the medical people from two different branches trying to get my waiver. After that it was a breeze. Ive heard it done in 3 months before.

As to community life, I cant tell you because I just got here. But life down here at the schoolhouse is changing. Right now they are desperate as all hell to do anything they can to get rid of the bubbles in training so what used to be a slap on the wrist offense or a problem that could be overcome with a simple change (Apache Bag gives you vertigo, etc) is now a ticket home. So you do have to watch your Ps and Qs more than what the people just a couple years ago had to when the pass rate was pretty much everybody with a pulse.

 

[Flying Low]

I have a friend who is a former Aircrewman and is now a Flying WO for the Army. He is flying 60's out of Savannah. PM me and I will pass on his email.

 

[highside7r]

No issue coming off the street, depending on age, but there are waivers for that. I have two former Navy buds that had the exact issue, prior E-6's then went civilian. Both had over one year break in service, so big Army decided to send them to boot camp and then on to WOCS. One of them did require an age waiver, but review board excepted him on the second try...I took that to mean yes the Army is still hurting on pilots.

After flight school, he can expect to be in one of two sandy locations with a month or so, I was meeting my first Medevac unit about 2 months out of flight school. Deployment schedule for my unit was 12 months over, 8 at home for the first 2 tours, then 15 over and 16 home (including a unit PCS).

Normally you can expect to stay around 36 months with a unit, then PCS to another unit that might be deploying, no sea/shore tours as in the Navy. For the warrants, you have several career tracks to choose from: IP,MTP (FCF Pilot), ASO, Tactical Ops Officer (think intel guy). No VT tours per say, although many guys want to go back and teach at Ft. Rucker, but detailers will want at least 24 months of combat time and PIC.

The communities are really what you make of them. I'm a -60 guy, so I can confirm the 60/47 dudes seem to be more mellow, but nothing against "gun" drivers, every airframe has one of those guys with XXXL helmet sizes. What I looked at coming from the Navy and not having a clue on how the green side worked, picked an airframe that I knew (former HS AW1) and duty station options, again UH-60's are everywhere in the Army.

If he needs any help let me know, Lawman will have the most current gouge as most of WOCS/flight school has changed since I was there.

 

[bobbybrock]

Uncle Fester,
I think I can answer most of his questions. I'm guard now, but was active duty for some time. Highside7r pretty much gave you a good 411. All tracks are the same for warrants regardless of community. Only gun guys can become master gunners as well. But that is really like a sub IP type catergory.
The army needs more pilots. The op tempo has more guys getting out than in the past.
I'm currently flying for the guard in Afghanistan and I can't even count how many active guys have talked to me about coming to the guard.
If your cousin wants he can e-mail me at bobbybrock@hotmail.com. I'll try and answer whatever questions he might have.

 

[robp0105]

If you wanted to do some online research, check out www.kiowapilots.com/forums/ They have a lot of helpful information regarding Army Aviation.

 

[Coota0]

Military.com was big help for me during my application, the recruiters really seemed to know nothing.

 

[hokieav8r]

http://www.usarmyaviation.com/

http://www.usarmyaviation.com/

This website will give you good information, and also give you links to other forums and official websites to give you even more information.

It is more than possible and not that hard to do. I have seen a lot of other service enlisted personnel come into the Army as Aviation Warrant with no problems. The key is to know another warrant officer or get to know a current and active warrant officer that will help you assemble your packet. That would be my single best piece of advice. These guys on here offering up their time and contact info, they would be your best bets on getting the most up to date information.

My stick buddy in primary was a prior enlisted Navy soldier in 2000.

Deployment schedules are grueling for Aviation in general. You are always going for 12 months, and usually now, you are getting somewhere between 12-24 off before going back over. For a while there was too much demand and some units have been ridden very hard and put away wet, going over for 12-15, then home for 9 and back over, then home for 9 and back over. If you are in the states too long, like 18-32 months, they'll find shit for you to do, like a National Training Center 30 day rotation in Ft Irwin/Barstow, CA, deployments to the field, OFTEN, Joint Readiness Training Center in Ft Polk, LA, Deployment to the field for 30 day gunnery, ETC, ETC.

It is an awesome adventure.

I'll gladly answer questions about the Army Lifestyle, but seek out the Warrants, especially some of the newer ones that can give you the most up to date info on the packet preparation.

Best of Luck to your relative applying.

Hokieav8r

 

[Stearmann4]

The guidance I usually give potential WO Aviators is this: When you sign the WOCS contract, the Army promises only to send you to flight school to fly helicopters. Eerything else is a crap shoot. To that end I think they produce arguably some of the best heicopter pilots in the world. Possibly very narrow in scope and mission, but good stick and rudder pilots none the less.

Beyond the aforementioned promise, you can bank on multiple overseas deployments, and the possibility of being stationed in some less than desireable duty stations. Ft Hood, Bliss, Polk, etc are the arm pits of the country. In broad strokes, you have a good chance of going to one of the big 3" at some point during your career which includes Ft Campbell, KY Ft Hood, TX and Ft Bragg, NC. Korea is usually somewhere in a pilot's career as well.

The Army also doesn't revere it's aviators the same way the Navy and AF do. We are simply another mode of transportation for the ground forces, which are the center of the Army.

There also is no such animal as "shore duty" you might go from deploying unit to deploying unit with not much regard for how much you were deployed at your previous duty station. In the Navy, I enjoyed being able to look a couple of years down the road for a shore tour break. The Army has jobs where you can get some family time, but you have to specifically request them, and they might not be in locations your want to relocate to.

Each airframe has it's own, distinct personallity. By the time you get to aircraft selection you have a pretty good idea which one personally suits you. FY10 will also be the first year that WO1s will be able to compete for and select fixed wing as a primary platform out of flight school. So, and new pilot could find himself flying RC-12s, or Dash-7s as a first duty station.

All said, you do get the priviledge of wearing military wings and tear-assing through the sky on Uncle Sam's dime so regardless of the Army's perceived short comings, it's a good deal if you can get it. Selections are way down as all communities except the AH-64s are over strength. It's bound to swing the other way in a couple of years though.

The discussion could go on forever, but you get the idea. When people ask me if I wish I'd stayed in the Navy after 12 years I always reply "The flying is unbeatable, other than that, I could still be my house in Coronado". Just one opinion.

MR-

 

[Lawman]

Each airframe has it's own, distinct personallity. By the time you get to aircraft selection you have a pretty good idea which one personally suits you. FY10 will also be the first year that WO1s will be able to compete for and select fixed wing as a primary platform out of flight school. So, and new pilot could find himself flying RC-12s, or Dash-7s as a first duty station.

-

My class is actually up for this program so its already happening. The theory behind it is having a WOJG community in the fixed wing side so that Senior Warrants expected to do Senior Warrant Jobs arent showing up with Fixed Wing FNG experiance on how it works.

As it stands you can opt to submit a packet after IERW. It is not considered a free ticket if you didnt get what you want at selection time. You have to have an overall GPA of 90% with no Pink Slips in your packet so if you failed a test or missed the bus to flightline your out. Its also a requirement that you can hold a TS clearance so theres that to look at when you retire and want a government job. Id consider it if we had something Armed in the fixed wing side. But honestly I dont want to spend the entirety of my Army Aviation career flying holding patterns while guys in the back play with radios Im not allowed to touch and tell me where they need me to go..... (No offence to the E2 guys )

 

[Uncle Fester]

Good knowledges, guys, thanks.

Here's another one I don't know the answer to - does the Guard pick up new pilots? IOW, can one join the Guard specifically to go to WOCS/flight school, or do their pilots all come from the Regular Army?

 

[Lawman]

Good knowledges, guys, thanks.

Here's another one I don't know the answer to - does the Guard pick up new pilots? IOW, can one join the Guard specifically to go to WOCS/flight school, or do their pilots all come from the Regular Army?

Guard and Reserve units have their own seperate budget for their own seperate aviation units. Those units select who they send to WOCS/OCS to be pilots Ive met a handful of guys who are guard/reserve that werent somehow prior service though. Not to say it doesnt happen, but just as it is in the regular Army the street to seat guys with no prior experiance are the minority.

 

[bobbybrock]

Fester,
Each unit is different in the guard. In Cali we try and send guys/gals from within the unit first. But we do take guys from the outside. I hate to use the word nepotism but it does come into play in the guard.

 

[murryton]

I want some of these folks complaining about Ft. Hood and Killeen to come down to Kingsville...