ORIGINS of PATCHES

[A4sForever]

Good stuff, HAL, thanks for the homework. One more for tonight ... I'm exhausted. And Old .....

Attack Squadron 195, VA-195, a.k.a., the "Chippies, a.k.a., the Dambusters .... they started out as VT-19 in WW2. That's like, TORPEDO 19 ... NOT TRARON 19!!! TBM Avengers and the whole works.

From the Skyhawk website: http://skyhawk.org/

VT-19's Lion Cub patch was first used during World War II, the patch making its appearance shortly before March 1944. The VT-19 patch illustrates a lion cub flying a torpedo and launching a rocket. First patch displayed above.
According to Tom Howley (fomer squadron member) the basis of the original lion cub and "rocket launcher' on a torpedo was that Bob Burns, a movie person famous for the "bazooka" - a comical musical instrument and "the so called rocket launcher", gave a lion cub to the squadron (final destination L.A. Zoo). Disney drew up the patch about 1944.

The Helmet and Shield patch was adopted by VA-195 in the 4th qtr. of 1957. When Cdr. Mead assumed the helm, the squadron had a contest for a new patch. The contest was won by an enlisted man and, after a few modifications by Cdr R.J. Mead, was submitted for BuAir approval. It became official the last of that year (1957). The new patch's background depicted the unit's day or night over land or sea capability, the torpedo upheld the "Dambusters" history (specifically, the strike against the floodgates of the Hwachon Reservoir Dam in Korea, 1951 while flying "Able Dogs" ... a.k.a. "A.D.'s" ... a.k.a."SPADs") and the superimposed atom represented the squadron's '60's-70's nuclear weapons capability. The Trojan helmet at the peak was CVG-19's patch.


..... addendum: VA-195 was a much better bunch of guys when I shipped with them than their sister squadron, VA-192. Actually, 192 --- at the time --- was a collection of pricks --- 195 was the exact opposite. I flew with the "Chippies" ... and got @ 7-8 hours in the A-7 as an LSO boondoggle --- VA-195=good guys. Good bombers, too.

 

[Blutonski816]

Actually, 192 --- at the time --- was a collection of pricks --- 195 was the exact opposite.

I guess that's why 192 is nicknamed "the Worms"

 

[Pugs]

Rick is one of the better historians in this regard and not just with the Prowler community from which he hails (as an ECMO).

Rick's a good guy. He was my first Mission Commander in 141 and shared a few duck blinds. Thought I knew a lot about Naval Aviation history until I spent time with him!

 

[A4sForever]

VF reserves to VF active duty to VA props and jets to Immortality ....

Source: Me.
VF-884 (Reserve) , the famous "Bitter Birds" -- flying the F4U-4 Corsair, was established in 1949 and assigned to NAS OLATHE, Kansas, prior to being called to active duty in 1950. The insignia, approved by CNO @ January 1951, portrayed its association with the state of Kansas. The circular designed insignia centered around a determined looking Jayhawk with a club in its hand. Inside the insignia were the words .. "Bitter Birds" ... The squadron was made up mostly of WW2 veterans and the nickname reflected the squadron's general feeling about "hardly getting settled after WW2" in the civilian world before being recalled to active duty in the Korean Conflict. It was a bit of notorious news in the day. But they went and distinguished themselves in combat.

...Old Friend



VF-884 was redesignated VF-144 (active duty) in February 1953 and the old insignia apparently fell out of "official" favor but a new insignia was not approved until May 1956. The new design depicted a (boring) stylized bird diving in the sky surrounded by a cone shaped barrier. Very boring. Initial rearing of the P.C. ugly head ?? The squadron transitioned to the F9F-5 and F9F-8B Cougar and sailed on both Mediterranean and Western Pacific deployments.

In 1959 VF-144 was redesignated as the VA-52 KNIGHTRIDERS and the squadron insignia changed again. The redesignated squadron flew the A1-J (AD-7) Skyraider and flew support for the USS MADDOX and TURNER JOY and participated in the first strikes against North Vietnam. VA-52 (re)joined the jet age in 1967 flying the A6-A Intruder. The squadron flew all models of the venerable Grumman A-6 Intruder until the squadron's disestablishment in 1995.

The new and final design for the squadron patch depicted a knight riding on a sea turtle armed with a mace. With the assignment of the attack mission the squadron's new insignia was designed to portray the pilot in the role of the knight, the legendary protector of honor. Using the mace -- a feared weapon from an earlier time, the knight exemplified the squadron's powerful striking capability. The turtle’s inclusion in the patch is not meant to indicate a lack of speed. Rather, unlike his brother the land tortoise, the sea-turtle is a capable and speedy performer possessed of great endurance when in his element, the sea.

The entire weapon system, mace, Knight, and turtle are superimposed over a target. ... "They have arrived at their objective and destruction of the target is inevitable".

VF-884 and VF-144 Bitter Birds, November 1949-February 1953.
VA-52 Knightriders from March 1953 - to disestablishment in 1995.

VA-52 is said by some sources to be the most highly decorated attack squadron (flew A-1's and A-6's) of the Vietnam War. They were there from the first to the last ...

 

[sirenia]

3. The (RED) CHINESE CHARACTERS (Traditional-- Pinyin) : "HERE THERE BE TIGERS ...."

Not to correct you on anything aviation related but those characters are Simplified Chinese and not Pinyin, which is a system of transliteration. Very interesting thread for a history buff like me. Thanks for putting it up.

 

[A4sForever]

.... This comes from FASOTRAGRUPAC C.O. and Training O ...

3. The (RED) CHINESE CHARACTERS (Traditional-- Pinyin) ..."

Not to correct you on anything aviation related but those characters are Simplified Chinese and not Pinyin ....

Harruuuumph. Well, I think you just did.

Figures ... government sources .... 50% chance of getting it right. What you say makes sense as they said "Red" Chinese ... "traditional?" ....probably not what one should think of as "traditional". Or is it nowdays, after 57 years ??? Anyway ... Thanks for the course correction ....

 

[A4sForever]

What's this ??? Anyone know???-- I don't, but I'm trying to track it down. Some locally made Sniper/Scout/Recon patch from I Corps in or around Danang. Best guess from the present owner is @ 1968-1971.

Anyone have any good ideas ??? Marines??? Any Old Breed onboard??

Thanks in advance ...

 

[FastMover]

Looks like a SOG (Studies and Operations Group) patch. This was the surname that the Army Special Forces used while conducting operations across the fence into Laos and Cambodia. They were some truly bad dudes.


CCC=Command and Control Central
CCN=Command and Control North
CCS=Command and Control South


See this link for more info.

 

[A4sForever]

Looks like a SOG (Studies and Operations Group) patch. This was the surname that the Army Special Forces used while conducting operations across the fence into Laos and Cambodia.

CCC=Command and Control Central
CCN=Command and Control North
CCS=Command and Control South

See this link for more info.

Good stuff ... thanks and I'll check your link.

Sooooooo .....then it sounds more like "Central" than "North" , i.e., NOT made in the Danang area (??) ... and more like Army ??? (SOG) ... but the patch is supposedly representative of a USMC Scout/Sniper outfit operating out of I Corps (according to the current owner -- a son) and came from the estate of a Marine vet with some other stuff that is unquestionably Vietnam and USMC.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Good stuff ... thanks and I'll check your link.

Sooooooo .....then it sounds more like "Central" than "North" , i.e., NOT made in the Danang area (??) ... and more like Army ??? (SOG) ... but the patch is supposedly representative of a USMC Scout/Sniper outfit operating out of I Corps (according to the current owner -- a son) and came from the estate of a Marine vet with some other stuff that is unquestionably Vietnam and USMC.

Digging through the links:

MACV-SOG was the joint service high command unconventional-warfare task force engaged in highly classified clandestine operations throughout Southeast Asia.

So, it stands to reason since it was "joint" that a USMC Scout/Sniper unit could be chopped to it...

 

[Schnugg]

VF-114 is similar.

We started with this "First To Fight"

A transition to the F-4 and popularity of the BC cartoon comic strip led to the squadron adopting the Aardvark as it had a long nose like an F-4 Phantom.

Newer patches include:

 

[FastMover]

I believe that it wasn't unheard of for USMC personnel (as well as SEALs, CIA, etc.) to be attached to SOG. Anyone who knows otherwise please correct me...it's been a while since I've read up on this stuff.

More good links:
http://www.scarface-usmc.org/MACV-SOG.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studies_and_Observations_Group

EDIT: I just noticed that it reads MONTANA across the bottom on the patch in A4's pic. This could be another clue.

CCN named their recon teams after states...i.e. RT Montana, RT Hawaii, RT Florida, etc.
CCC used snake names, i.e. RT Python, RT Copperhead, etc.
CCS used the name of tools, i.e. RT Hammer

As the war began to wind down the SOG teams were consolidated. I think CCS was the first to go...the teams were split up and sent to CCN and CCC. CCN and CCC were then merged (IIRC), which could explain why a CCC patch has a CCN team name on it.

Clear as mud?

 

[nittany03]

Don't have a patch for it, but here's an interesting bit of history I found on the Web the other day. VAQ-129 was originally VAH-10, a Skywarrior squadron. During its transition to become the Prowler RAG, it apparently had a det on the line on Yankee Station, flying Skywarriors, but officially part of 129.

 

[A4sForever]

Don't have a patch for it, but here's an interesting bit of history I found on the Web the other day. VAQ-129 was originally VAH-10, a Skywarrior squadron. During its transition to become the Prowler RAG, it apparently had a det on the line on Yankee Station, flying Skywarriors, but officially part of 129.

You are right, I'd forgotten that about VAQ-129 ... from the Skywarrior website: http://www.a3skywarrior.com/index.htm

Heavy-10 was commissioned at NAS Whidbey Island, Washington, on May 1,1961, VAH-10 was the last HATRON to be activated. The squadron took part in the shakedown cruise of the USS Constellation (CVA-64) in March-April 1962. During the following two years, VAH-10 deployed twice to WestPac aboard this carrier. It was there that VAH-10 and the other CVW-8 squadrons provided some of the first naval aircraft to go into combat in Southeast Asia as the Constellation was involved in the August, 1964, Gulf of Tonkin Incident.

Back at Whidbey Island in early 1965, the squadron departed for the MED aboard the USS Franklin D. Roosevelt (CVA-42). Thereafter, VAH-10 became a detachment squadron, with its Skywarriors deploying seven times to the Gulf of Tonkin between June, 1966, and August, 1970. While Det 62 (USS Independence CVA-62) was deployed to the Med from June 70 to Jan 71, they became VAQ-129 as a part of the redesignation process. It is reported that they even sported dual logos during this cruise.

"Heavy Ten" was the last operational HATRON, as VAH-2 and VAH-4 had been redesignated TACELRONS in November, 1968. VAH-10 finally followed this path and was formally redesignated VAQ-129 on September 1, 1970.

 

[A4sForever]

...Clear as mud?

+ Rep. Actually, it's perfect ...and it presents a reasonable explanation for the "dual location" indicators on the patch.

I will pass this along to the owner. BZ.