Power, wave off, abort, $#%$, Eject!

[Pitchlock]

Various comments from a P-3 Pilot.

Waveoffs: Practiced alot in P-3s. The second most dangerous maneuver in a P-3 is a two engine waveoff. The first is loss of two engines on takeoff. If you fly P-3s long enough you will eventually initiate a waveoff due to not seeing the runway on a 0-0 approach. (unless you have good rabbit lights, but thats a different topic). I don't remember any taboo for waveoffs, but then we didn't grade landings, nor have skippers watching patterns.

Wind Speed: Wind does not affect flying characteristics but it will effect rate of decent and the speed which the runway approaches. Both require an adjustment in the feel of the approach. Some fields only have precision approaches to only one runway and you may be forced to fly and land with the wind.

 

[A4sForever]

.....My point is that the so-called cut and dry ways of flying at the boat aren't so cut and dry. Maybe that's just a CODism, or perhaps just a current trend with CODs, or perhaps just a current trend with CODs on the West Coast, etc. etc. etc.

Actually ... it is really cut and dried.

Fly the ball --- in the center --- as NONE of you are "good enough" to finesse the ball up, down, around the lens --- not "doing it" is how accidents happen. The ship is a moving target. You start accepting anything less than a centered ball; i.e., less than doing it right .... well then ... how about a little low ... perhaps a little lined up left .... maybe just a tad to the right ... can't hurt, right ???

All of our WestPac COD, Whale det guys, F-8 det guys, Air Wing guys flew a centered ball. No exceptions.

'Cept for helos ... and sometimes even them as well.

 

[Sarge]

That settles it. You buy all the beers for a BAGEX like that.

It's a shame that those kind of days are most likely a thing of the past...

 

[bunk22]

Viking WOD requirements are -4 knots (yes a tailwind). I remember the C-2's 25 knot requirement having to do with flying qualities and not the structural limits of the airframe/tailhook as most of the other WOD requirements are based.

You're right and it has to do with the single characteristics of the COD, especially when 44k or less. The two wave-off's I took (I think one was with me as a nugget and the A/C made the call), the winds were so far off. We could have landed without issue I'm sure but if something had happened, the A/C would have been held accountable. As I recall, the winds had died down to something like 18 knots and I made the call but with no response so we took it.

 

[kmac]

Actually ... it is really cut and dried.

Fly the ball --- in the center --- as NONE of you are "good enough" to finesse the ball up, down, around the lens --- not "doing it" is how accidents happen. The ship is a moving target. You start accepting anything less than a centered ball; i.e., less than doing it right .... well then ... how about a little low ... perhaps a little lined up left .... maybe just a tad to the right ... can't hurt, right ???

All of our WestPac COD, Whale det guys, F-8 det guys, Air Wing guys flew a centered ball. No exceptions.

'Cept for helos ... and sometimes even them as well.

Hey if it were an ideal world, I'd totally agree with you. The fact was if I flew (or at least strived to and corrected to fly) a 1-ball high approach (on the IFLOLS, not the FLOLS), I would get an OK. If I tried to center the ball, I would get the (OK) for going low. Again, that may be specific to current COD waving trends. I'm not even trying to step on the toes of paddles; I just see how my passes have been graded and adjust accordingly.

 

[A4sForever]

Hey if it were an ideal world, I'd totally agree with you......

You're right ... the world is not perfect. I think we've discussed where the ball is "supposed to be" and how to fly at the BOAT in the past.

But here's how the world can become slightly "more perfect": you gotta do your part --- you just gotta try harder. Raise your standards ... fly the ball in the center ... hawk lineup all the way in the groove ... don't settle at the ramp ... don't accept less than your best. Others have done it "right" ... I've waived 'em. You're not gonna score 100% every time or get an OK 3 wire ... but you should be shooting for it.

I guess it's all how you approach flying. For me ... there is no slack. Do your best all the time, every time. Do it for the personal satisfaction, if for nothing else ... and since I'm not waving you --- you can do what you want.

But why settle for less than your best???

 

[Pitchlock]

But why settle for less than your best???

I think your missing the point. If he can fly a consistent ball up approach in any condition by choice he is good.

I think your point is that you should be in control of the airplane. The index of the ball is irrelevant. If he is putting the plane where he wants it to be (and to the liking of those 'grading him') he is flying it right. Where he wants it may be a matter of headwork/gamesmanship, but not skill.

 

[HAL Pilot]

I think your missing the point. ......

I think you're missing a big point here too. You're a P-3 pilot. You don't have a tail hook. A4s did and kmac does. If I was you, I'd sit on the sidelines and let the hookers argue this one.

 

[Gatordev]

Question for you guys...

There is an AOA indexer somewhere on the outside of the aircraft (nose gear, or where ever), correct? Do LSOs use those at night exclusively, during the day, at all? Seems like it would be hard to see during the day and would be more useful in the night when you can't see the silhouette of the aircraft. Or are they just there for the heck of it?

 

[Chubby]

Maybe we should go back to the basics and look at it from the neophyte's perspective ... don't argue with the LSO. If what looks to you to be a crester to ball high all the way pass turns out to be an OK in the debrief, but the rails all the way pass to you turns out to be an (OK) ... maybe my eyeball cal is off. Don't argue with the LSO, he's there to save your ass, and fly what looks to be a slightly high pass but is in the eyes of the LSO a safer pass than the slightly low(center ball to you) pass. My two cents, which don't count for much.

 

[Pitchlock]

I think you're missing a big point here too. You're a P-3 pilot. You don't have a tail hook. A4s did and kmac does. If I was you, I'd sit on the sidelines and let the hookers argue this one.

My point that pilot skill is being able to put the aircraft in any point of its envelope when you want to in any condition. Headwork is about deciding which part of the envelope to chose...carrier aviation does not have a monopoly on that concept.

 

[Chubby]

Question for you guys...

There is an AOA indexer somewhere on the outside of the aircraft (nose gear, or where ever), correct? Do LSOs use those at night exclusively, during the day, at all? Seems like it would be hard to see during the day and would be more useful in the night when you can't see the silhouette of the aircraft. Or are they just there for the heck of it?

AOA lights are the three vertical lights above the landing light.

 

[A4sForever]

Maybe we should go back to the basics and look at it from the neophyte's perspective ... don't argue with the LSO, he's there to save your ass, ..... My two cents, which don't count for much.

You are wise beyond your years, young Grasshopper ... if EVERY Naval Aviator with a hook between his tail had your wisdom ... we would be closer to that perfect world KMAC is lookin' for ....

BZ.

 

[A4sForever]

My point that pilot skill is being able to put the aircraft in any point ....deciding which part of the envelope to chose...

While that works at the field when landing ... it doesn't work that way at the ship.

There's only ONE way to get aboard the ship --- and it ain't about "choice" ... believe it.

 

[A4sForever]

Question for you guys...

There is an AOA indexer somewhere on the outside of the aircraft (nose gear, or where ever), correct? Do LSOs use those at night exclusively, during the day, at all? ...

They're critical at night ... you obviously CAN wave someone without 'em ... but you've lost a big helpful "cue". You've still got engine "sound", position lights, eyeball experience, and "trends" ... but they're really, really nice to have for reference.

During the day -- you basically can't see them until the very last portion of the approach -- and by then ... you've already accepted the pass based on other visual cues for airspeed, attitude, and trend ...