POWs Tell Their Tales (Pensacola)

[A4sForever]

..... in early 2001. I was amazed that he could still recite the names of all the POW's from memory.

I guess it helps to put it to the tune of "Old McDonald had a Farm" ...

Here's an interesting link that tells the story of Seaman Doug Hegdahl (penned by a former cellmate and VA-192 World Famous Golden Dragon -- Dick Stratton, Lieutenant Commander, USN -- perhaps you've heard of him?? ). It's entitled:

THE INCREDIBLY STUPID ONE

... stupid like a fox, that it ...

 

[A4sForever]

I should have mentioned -- here's where this stuff came from -- check it out; there's lots of good reading therein.

TALES of SOUTH EAST ASIA

The occasional memoirs of "The Beak," a.k.a. Capt. Richard A. Stratton, USN [ret.]

 

[Gatordev]

Don't know when he retired, but he was still an instructor when I went through in early 2001. I was amazed that he could still recite the names of all the POW's from memory.

I went through in mid 2002 and they said he had just retired (last several months).

My question, along the lines of HD's post, is how did these "collaborators" collaborate? What was it exactly could they give up that was worth anything other than their statements of how USA=bad. More of a rhetorical question. I'm not fresh on my POW info, but I thought there were plenty of folks that officially returned w/ honor that signed documents because they reached their breaking point of the moment (keeping that vague so we don't go into the details of SERE, so hopefully those that "know" understand what I mean).

 

[Harrier Dude]

In Senator McCains book he talks about a few guys that basically did whatever they were told and lived in relative comfort as a result. They weren't locked in a cell or routinely beaten. They just hung out waiting for the war to end. He mentioned that he tried to get them back in the game, but they weren't interested.

Lots of guys broke and said/signed things that they later wished that they hadn't, but they shook it off and went back to resisting. That's not what he was talking about above. Those guys just flat-out quit. I've always wondered what happened to them later.

These are the guys that LCdr Stratten refered to in one documentary as "rat finks". I think that they were basically ostricized by the returning POWs that kept the faith, but other than living with that shame for the rest of their lives, I don't think that anything else was done to them.

 

[BACONATOR]

In Senator McCains book he talks about a few guys that basically did whatever they were told and lived in relative comfort as a result. They weren't locked in a cell or routinely beaten. They just hung out waiting for the war to end. He mentioned that he tried to get them back in the game, but they weren't interested.

Lots of guys broke and said/signed things that they later wished that they hadn't, but they shook it off and went back to resisting. That's not what he was talking about above. Those guys just flat-out quit. I've always wondered what happened to them later.

These are the guys that LCdr Stratten refered to in one documentary as "rat finks". I think that they were basically ostricized by the returning POWs that kept the faith, but other than living with that shame for the rest of their lives, I don't think that anything else was done to them.

I think living as a traitor to your country is probably a fate worse than death.

I've always wondered how I would act/respond as a POW (I know, I know. I'll get a HINT of it at SERE), but watching the documentaries of the guys in the Hanoi Hilton is MAJORLY inspiring.

I forget names, but hearing about how the one gentleman, who was going to be used in a propaganda shoot, shaved a strip in his head, was given a hat to cover up his "work" and then he subsequently bashed himself in the face and cut himself with a piece of broken glass to prevent this....AMAZING. Some of these guys did absolutely amazing and unfathomable things to prevent the enemy from doing the most seemingly innocuous things to their benefit.

Even John Mccain, son of a VERY important Admiral, who had the chance to leave, said "HELL NO. I'm not leaving without my men" (obviously, not a direct quote ). It sounds obvious in the comfort of our own homes, but being constantly tortured for days/weeks/months/years on end, this could easily become a simple solution.

While the presence of the "rat-finks" may leave a bitter taste in the mouth, these folks who did all they could for their country's honor and their own far outweigh the bad of the few less-than-honorable ones...

 

[A4sForever]

.....These are the guys that LCdr Stratten (sic) refered to in one documentary as "rat finks". I think that they were basically ostricized by the returning POWs that kept the faith...

Correct and yes. My former VT-4 gun instructor.

 

[Harrier Dude]

I think living as a traitor to your country is probably a fate worse than death.

I've always wondered how I would act/respond as a POW (I know, I know. I'll get a HINT of it at SERE), but watching the documentaries of the guys in the Hanoi Hilton is MAJORLY inspiring.

I forget names, but hearing about how the one gentleman, who was going to be used in a propaganda shoot, shaved a strip in his head, was given a hat to cover up his "work" and then he subsequently bashed himself in the face and cut himself with a piece of broken glass to prevent this....AMAZING. Some of these guys did absolutely amazing and unfathomable things to prevent the enemy from doing the most seemingly innocuous things to their benefit.

Even John Mccain, son of a VERY important Admiral, who had the chance to leave, said "HELL NO. I'm not leaving without my men" (obviously, not a direct quote ). It sounds obvious in the comfort of our own homes, but being constantly tortured for days/weeks/months/years on end, this could easily become a simple solution.

While the presence of the "rat-finks" may leave a bitter taste in the mouth, these folks who did all they could for their country's honor and their own far outweigh the bad of the few less-than-honorable ones...

That was Admiral Stockdale. It's mentioned specifically in his Medal of Honor citation.

 

[BACONATOR]

That was Admiral Stockdale. It's mentioned specifically in his Medal of Honor citation.

Roger that. I haven't read the citation. I was merely going off of the documentary I saw. This just happened to be the first story I could recall. Either way, REMARKABLE!

 

[VIZKRIEG]

If you guys want an excellent book to read about the POWs in the Hanoi Hilton, I would recommend both "Scars and Stripes" by retired Captain "Red" McDaniel http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/m/m101.htm, and "After the Heroes Welcome," by his wife, Dorothy. Both are amazing books, and I have worked with the McDaniels on a paper I wrote in the Fall. They are exceptional people.

 

[phrogpilot73]

Another great book to read is Five Years to Freedom

 

[A4sForever]

.... retired Captain "Red" McDaniel http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/m/m101.htm, ... I have worked with the McDaniels on a paper I wrote in the Fall. They are exceptional people.

Red McDaniel is a fine gentleman, he kept the faith, and he's a legend in the A-6 community.

If you collaborated w/ him, perhaps you can confirm or deny something that has bothered me for some time. What does CAPT McDaniel think about the treatment he received from two sitting U.S. Senators when he lobbied for POW/MIA's and their families in the early '90's ???

If you can answer, feel free to PM me if the subject is too "delicate" for a public forum. If not; I understand and it's O.K.

 

[VIZKRIEG]

words

PM Sent, Sir