President Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize

[Afterburner76]

Not sure if anyone saw SNL last week:

"In a surprise decision, President Obama won the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize Friday. In other premature awards this week: high school football player Billy Reynolds has been named this year's Heisman Trophy winner; fifth grader Amber Collins has been named Miss America; and nine-year-old Dylan Holt has been named People's 'Sexiest Man Alive.'" --Seth Meyers

Or how about...

"Obama said he will attend the ceremony in Oslo if he's not too busy with the two wars he's conducting." --Bill Maher

 

[Random8145]

Both Medicare and the VA program are good, but if you want to demean them, they are pure forms of “socialism”.

Well I think that depends on who you ask. I know some vets who say the VA system is horrible and it being socialized medicine is pretty scary. Some others say it gives pretty good care.

Medicare isn't per se "socialized" medicine, it's socialized health insurance, but private sector healthcare. That said, the program has huge problems with waste, fraud, and I don't think it is financially sound as is. My grandmother gets Medicare, but it doesn't cover all the things she needs, she still has to pay out-of-pocket for certain things.

 

[Flash]

Well I think that depends on who you ask. I know some vets who say the VA system is horrible and it being socialized medicine is pretty scary. Some others say it gives pretty good care.

Well, so is military medicine, and I have heard plenty of good and bad experiences out of that too (I only had good). So far my experiences with the VA have been very good, they have really bent over backwards to make sure that I was treated right. The computerized health records alone make the VA a better system than most, I wish the military would get off it's ass and do the same across the whole system.

 

[Clux4]

Well, so is military medicine, and I have heard plenty of good and bad experiences out of that too (I only had good). So far my experiences with the VA have been very good, they have really bent over backwards to make sure that I was treated right. The computerized health records alone make the VA a better system than most, I wish the military would get off it's ass and do the same across the whole system.

Well, Shinseki is working on that. I heard him talk recently and one of his big push is to have an automated system from entry into service to the grave. It should cut down slew of employees, missing medical records and the transfer of information across agencies.

 

[subTidal]

A whole lot of words

Did you actually read the proposed bill(s) and the CBO analysis and can emphatically state it will play out like you state it will? It looks like you have only referenced the White House talking papers on the subject. Do you think that is an objective source?

 

[PropAddict]

I wish the military would get off it's ass and do the same across the whole system.

Oh god. Having spent the last week playing at my local Navy Medical Death Clinic, I fear for the terabytes and terabytes of medical record data that are lost when this happens. We can't figure out how to handle a paper medical file, or give everyone unsecure internet at faster than 14.4 KBPS dial-up. And you want to marry the two together?!?!?

Hell, 2 weeks ago I got a letter saying the clinic in Pensacola had lost a laptop that had all my contact info in it and that, while they don't think anything bad really happened, I should monitor my credit a little more closely in the coming weeks.:icon_rage

 

[Jim123]

Hell, 2 weeks ago I got a letter saying the clinic in Pensacola had lost a laptop that had all my contact info in it and that, while they don't think anything bad really happened, I should monitor my credit a little more closely in the coming weeks.:icon_rage

By the way, I got one of those a couple years ago* for just about the same thing. There was a year's paid subscription to some credit monitoring service included in the "deal." You can also go on any of the credit bureaus and put a free "active duty credit alert" on your credit profile... supposedly that helps. I also got the notice a few years ago from the Naval Safety Center OOPS when they published names and SSNs of fliers for the past how many years... nice. Starting to get used to this

*In this case it was an MPRI contractor who lost a company laptop in his checked luggage, which, by the way, the letter stated is against their company policy (their company laptops are carry-on only), the laptop was password protected and encrypted yadda yadda, and the contractor got fired over it. What? Wait... accountability!

This is exactly why everybody has to do that annoying annual information assurance training and why the IT nerds are always stressing over IT certification.

 

[Random8145]

Well, so is military medicine, and I have heard plenty of good and bad experiences out of that too (I only had good). So far my experiences with the VA have been very good, they have really bent over backwards to make sure that I was treated right. The computerized health records alone make the VA a better system than most, I wish the military would get off it's ass and do the same across the whole system.

Not sure for general stuff, but I do not think I would want to go under the knife for any complicated surgery by a government doctor, unless they were among the very very best, like at Bathesda say.

 

[squorch2]

Quit talking out of your ass. I've seen the care that Navy specialists give first hand, and it's exceptional.

Not sure where "Bathesda" is either.

 

[Spekkio]

No matter what you do, there will still be doctors who have gone through 11-15 years of schooling and training who expect to be paid $200-500k per year to do their jobs.

That's not going to be cheap for anyone, no matter what you do about insurance premiums.

 

[Beans]

No matter what you do, there will still be doctors who have gone through 11-15 years of schooling and training who expect to be paid $200-500k per year to do their jobs.

That's not going to be cheap for anyone, no matter what you do about insurance premiums.

If you think about the training and skills involved, which you are, and the services they perform, they certainly deserve it more than the so-called capitalists who busted the economy for the benefit of, well, just themselves.

 

[subTidal]

From the CBO analysis: http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/104xx/doc10464/hr3200.pdf the cost of the bill would be just over $1 trillion, but partly offset by "spending changes" to whittle down to $239 billion. How do you suppose they would accomplish that?

After ending the fiscal year with a record $1.4 trillion federal deficit and wanting to spend $1 trillion more on healthcare reform, now Obama wants to spend $13-$14 billion giving those on social security a $250 check, right after he announced they would get no COLA due to no inflation for 2009.

 

[picklesuit]

After ending the fiscal year with a record $1.4 trillion federal deficit and wanting to spend $1 trillion more on healthcare reform, now Obama wants to spend $13-$14 billion giving those on social security a $250 check, right after he announced they would get no COLA due to no inflation for 2009.

COLA is based solely on the level of inflation, not what President Obama thinks...stop regurgitating Limbaugh and O'Reilly and have an original thought...

 

[DukeAndrewJ]

The WSJ has a decent opinion piece comparing estimated-vs-actual costs of previous government healthcare-related plans. Certainly, it is not exactly coming from a non-partisan source, but I do think the numbers carry more weight than a Rush Limbaugh talking point.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703746604574461610985243066.html

anyway, they said it better than I could so I will leave it at that.

 

[Spekkio]

If you think about the training and skills involved, which you are, and the services they perform, they certainly deserve it more than the so-called capitalists who busted the economy for the benefit of, well, just themselves.

I agree. However, my point is that there is a lot of room for improvement/reform on the schooling end of the deal as well, but no one is addressing that at all. When you have people going into 6-figure debt to get a medical degree, you're never going to truly make healthcare "affordable." It costs over a grand just to take a step of the USMLE.

For example, the amount of doctors accepted to medical school has not increased significantly since the 80s, despite the large rise in demand for healthcare. I still don't understand why professional degrees (this is not limited to doctors, but lawyers and other professionals as well) require a 4-year bachelor's for entry. Mind you, they don't require any sort of specific degree, just a degree. That's 4 extra years of schooling and going into debt that can be expended. I have a friend who just graduated medical school who has a degree in political science. I'm sure that classes such as early 20th century U.S. foreign policy are doing wonders to help him treat patients.

Fixing healthcare is going to require a multi-pronged approach. The answer is not simply socializing it or mandating that everyone purchase private healthcare insurance.