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Professional Reading Drop Box

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
You guys don't do much EMCON A these days? Used to do it all the time WESTPACing back in the day.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Which is good! And far more helpful at reducing signatures than calling out SN Schmuckatelli on using their iphone while underway.

Very true, and I agree, delivery by the General wasn't the best.

As an aside, though, cell phones at night on the smoke deck while underway have been an issue when trying to remain covert. Then again, so are cigarettes when on NVGs and FLIR, so I'd say we eliminate those, too. But I know that's not going to happen.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
His description of the Seaman on the boat is a bit goofy, as it's simply the transmission of signals in the cellular bands that would give away the ship, not the fact the phone has GPS (since the phone's GPS is receive only).

The "seaman with a cell phone" thing is absolutely hilarious.

You know what puts out a bit more power than cell phones? Radars, links, radios, satcom, etc.

Don't be so dismissive, with cell phones being so ubiquitous now the likelihood they will cause issues in an EMCON environment is a pretty real threat. It is given extra importance since we are now trying to relearn how to fight in a high-threat EW environment with near-peer enemies.

One more safe assumption to keep in mind, the Commandant knows a lot more about the current threats than pretty much anyone on this board.
 

Brett327

Well-Known Member
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
The "seaman with a cell phone" thing is absolutely hilarious.

You know what puts out a bit more power than cell phones? Radars, links, radios, satcom, etc.

We all know EMCON A exists, but we don't train to it.
It's comming back into vogue, (for a couple of very good reasons) including cell phones.
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
The "seaman with a cell phone" thing is absolutely hilarious.

You know what puts out a bit more power than cell phones? Radars, links, radios, satcom, etc.

We all know EMCON A exists, but we don't train to it.

EMCON A on major sources of radiation is easy. A few watchstations on a ship flip their gear off, and you're done.

Getting the crew to build a habit of not carrying something that is an emitter is a lot harder, and gets worse the more people you have onboard.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
The hard part isn't conducting the training/ops, nor is it flipping the switch on the gear.

It's getting senior leaders' buy-in to the whole process, as it degrades their ability to use the 2000 mile screwdriver that they have become used to.

For larger ships, it also requires a rethink of what level of tactical picture the warfare commander is willing to accept.

These problems are much harder than the cell phone problem.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
...It's getting senior leaders' buy-in to the whole process, as it degrades their ability to use the 2000 mile screwdriver that they have become used to....These problems are much harder than the cell phone problem.

Different problems with their own unique challenges, don't let your cynicism blind you to how serious some in the military, specifically the Navy, leadership are taking this issue or the challenge of getting ~8000 sailors to turn off their cell phones even if they are out at sea.

Just because a problem might be hard or challenging doesn't mean we should just say 'fuck it' and give up, it would also be a mistake to assume that even something as innocuous as a smartphone can't be the final piece of a puzzle for an adversary to find out where you and a few hundred of your closest friends are in the big blue sea.
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
I'm not saying give up - I'm saying tackle the kW-level transmitters and their usage as well!
 

wink

War Hoover NFO.
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Different problems with their own unique challenges, don't let your cynicism blind you to how serious some in the military, specifically the Navy, leadership are taking this issue or the challenge of getting ~8000 sailors to turn off their cell phones even if they are out at sea.

Just because a problem might be hard or challenging doesn't mean we should just say 'fuck it' and give up, it would also be a mistake to assume that even something as innocuous as a smartphone can't be the final piece of a puzzle for an adversary to find out where you and a few hundred of your closest friends are in the big blue sea.
True I am sure. But it would be just like the Navy of late to focus on smart phones, ignoring thorough operational EMCON training. As BigRed and Squorch point out, initially it is easy. Turn off the switch. The hard lessons learned are for more senior leaders. They are used to their God's eye view and reach across the oceans into valleys. Much easier to hammer sailors on cell phones and bury their heads to the real challenge of EMCON after decades of trons bringing all manner of tactical information to your finger tips. If you can't get those rascally sailors to control their phones why do I have to give up my fancy LINK xx or SPY xx ?
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
I'm not saying give up - I'm saying tackle the kW-level transmitters and their usage as well!

True I am sure. But it would be just like the Navy of late to focus on smart phones, ignoring thorough operational EMCON training. As BigRed and Squorch point out, initially it is easy. Turn off the switch. The hard lessons learned are for more senior leaders....If you can't get those rascally sailors to control their phones why do I have to give up my fancy LINK xx or SPY xx ?

If you all think this is the case you haven't been paying attention lately.
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
True I am sure. But it would be just like the Navy of late to focus on smart phones, ignoring thorough operational EMCON training. As BigRed and Squorch point out, initially it is easy. Turn off the switch. The hard lessons learned are for more senior leaders. They are used to their God's eye view and reach across the oceans into valleys. Much easier to hammer sailors on cell phones and bury their heads to the real challenge of EMCON after decades of trons bringing all manner of tactical information to your finger tips. If you can't get those rascally sailors to control their phones why do I have to give up my fancy LINK xx or SPY xx ?

Leadership has already come around to the operational need to exercise EMCON A again.

I feel like the message is more like a cleaned up, "Look mother####ers, you stupid assholes who can't go 5 minutes without your <insert personal device> are the reason we failed our EMCON A drill, and you're going to get us all killed."
 

squorch2

he will die without safety brief
pilot
Drills are great - but are they a check in the box, or are we simulating that contested EW environment we all talk about?

At any rate, you have things like COCOM and national requirements for link, visual information, etc. that ensure you'll be radiating when actually deployed.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Drills are great - but are they a check in the box, or are we simulating that contested EW environment we all talk about?

At any rate, you have things like COCOM and national requirements for link, visual information, etc. that ensure you'll be radiating when actually deployed.

Those requirements aren't set in stone by any stretch and are for permissive environment, give our leadership a little credit that they are smart enough to sometimes know a little better than what you seem to assume.
 
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