Prone Float...more like Prone Sinking.

[Krafty1]

You'll be fine if you don't panic, that is how most people end up repeating the float that I saw. Even floaters sink a little in full flight gear. The only nice thing about the gear is that helmet floats. The trick after that is all in the rear, let your feet hang straight down and focus on getting your butt to the surface. I'm opposite of your build, tall and skinny, but like you I sank. Someone tipped me off to this and I was able to float with or without gear on after sinking before (the only reason I passed at OCS was because they allowed the 'bobber' type float).

 

[wlawr005]

You'll be fine man, trust me. I am absolutely horrible at the float (repeated it twice before I could finally do it). I just kept sinking and sinking. It ended up being a form thing, once I arched my back the right way, and got a bit of extra air in, I was ok. It still wasn't easy, and I absolutely hate it, but I survived it. Good luck!

Genius!

 

[cfam]

Haha, sounds familiar, right?

 

[MIDNJAC]

Agree with the above posts. If you are struggling in some area of swim phys, they will more than likely just have you come in outside of class and do some remedial swim training. NOT remedial in the sense that you are in trouble, just that they need to work with you more than the allotted class time allows. From what I saw when I was there, they WILL get you through it.

 

[pilotboy17]

Swim Instructor's Manual:

https://www.netc.navy.mil/nascweb/model_manager/files/swim/netc_1552/1552-16_JUL07_(combined).pdf

Everything you never wanted to know about swimming.

Thanks, all. This guide really helped a lot. I took the WS-2 yesterday. It seems to change all the time, but it was the 4 strokes they evaluated, with lots of emphasis on breast stroke. Then the tower jump. When everyone was done with that, a 5 minute prone float then tread water for about a minute. I thought I was good on the breast stroke but some how my frog kick wasn't big enough for them. So I am on hold for that, which is not a big deal.

The biggest thing though was I actually lasted the entire 5 minute prone float! I thought it would have been over really quick as in my practices. I think it was the adrenaline of trying to not be the only guy struggling in the water and also read the part in the instructor manual about chin on chest. I literally kept it glued there this time. I think that is what caused my back to arch (like most of you talked about)? Also, since I didn't have goggles, I really didn't know how far I was sinking, so I was less panicky. I don't think there was panic once I felt like I wasn't sinking! And come to find out, when I went up for air, I was no more than a feet under water. So although I am in hold swim, I think I've come a LONG way from where I was.

Thanks again to everyone who helped. I hope this will help someone else, too.

 

[BACONATOR]

Hey guys, I just met with all the instructors for the first day of API (25 Jun 2010) and swim instructors. It doesn't look THAT bad as people make it out to be. I am fine with all PRT standards and I don't think I should have a problem with academics. I am a CFI/CFII and graduated top of my class with an Aviation Science major. Yes, I've heard the stories that these are the worst people because they often can't learn the Navy way. I am very good at adapting and will do anything to get my wings, even if it means relearning things. Flying for the military is my dream.

I did have one thing to ask though...It'll sound funny at first, but I am in the Coast Guard and I've never really been the best swimmer (all Coasties aren't rescue swimmers like some people assume). I never took swim lessons when I was younger, just kind of tried to copy what other people did (come to find out it was all wrong). I passed basic training requirements and then OCS requirements marginally.

Now I am at flight school. I have been practicing a lot with a friend who had lots of swimming experience and now finally realized the majority of it was all technique in the first place. I am confident on the mile swim now, especially when I found out goggles can be used. So one told me you couldn't use them so I stressed a little. I was doing the breast stroke wrong the entire time in the past, using arm stroke and frog kick strokes simultaneously which tired me out VERY fast, instead of frog kick, glide, then stroke in one fluid motion. I am also kind of a bulkier type body style with probably 12% body fat (I never ever met the body mass index, according to it I am overweight), so I used to blame it on that causing me to sink, but it was mainly poor technique.

But here lies the problem now: I heard the swim instructor say that for our second swim class (WS-2), we have to pass it or we can't continue with the class. They put you in swim hold. You have to jump off the tower, swim 100 yds (25 crawl, 25 breast, 25 side, 25 back), tread water 2 minutes, then 5 minute prone float. I can do everything easily BUT the prone float. I was in the pool with my buddy for almost 2 hrs trying to get me to do the Prone float, trying different body positions, using a slight scull, and I just naturally sink. He was trying to figure out where I was neutrally buoyant. We are going back today to a deeper pool to see how far down I will sink before I stop sinking lol. I know it sounds funny, but scared I will get sent back for something like that. It's not like I can't do it. I'm doing everything I'm supposed to (deep breath of air, proper form, face down, etc), it's just I can't change how my body is. I just start to sink. Just another note, I can back float fine, too.

I'm also thinking with all the bulky Marines out there, I can't be the only one going through this? If anyone can give some advice, please let me know. I will also ask the instructor during the WS-1 class. It's the weekend and I just want to see if I can do anything else to prepare at the pool.

Thank you.

Just do like the rest of us and sneak in a kick or two, to keep you within a couple feet of the surface during this evolution and pass it. 'nuff said.

 

[wlawr005]

Congratulations. The frog kick is no biggie, you have cleared your big hurdle and are now more comfortable in the water. This will help tremendously when it comes to swimming the mile at the end of API. Great job.

As for the breast stroke, read the manual again and focus on all the little things. The most important thing is to GLIDE.

 

[SynixMan]

Any tips for the tower jump/underwater swim?

 

[cfam]

For the underwater swim it helped me to get as close to the bottom as possible, the people closer to the surface seemed to have a much harder time of it.

 

[wlawr005]

When swimming underwater, you have to convince yourself that you can do it. It really takes a mental breakthrough, and once you make it, you'll never have trouble with that portion again.

In SAR school, they would beat our ass with sprints and then make us tread water in the deep and with just our fins (no hands). After a minute or so to bring our heart rate down, we would have to flip, dive to the bottom and swim the 25m to the other side of the pool underwater. We were all in shape, but there were about 1/3 who couldn't do it. It was totally mental. People gave up before they made it to the other side. I had trouble with it for about the first two days, and then I got tired of getting yelled at for surfacing. I said to myself "fuck it, if I black out odds are they're gonna save my ass before I drown." I made it to the other side and never had another problem again.

Just do it. There's at least three instructors watching you, if you stop moving it will take them about three seconds to have you out of the water. Convince yourself that your safe and then there's nothing to it.

As an aside, if you swim slower it's easier. You use less energy, maintain a good heart rate (not too fast), and burn through less O2. It's takes some conditioning to slow down though, try for completion/confidence first then go for style points.

Edit: Forgot about the jump...feet first, head last, close your nose, squeeze your ass.

 

[pilotboy17]

...As for the breast stroke, read the manual again and focus on all the little things. The most important thing is to GLIDE.

The breaststroke method I was doing before seemed to work for me though and I never got tired doing it. The instructors just wanted me to avoid pushing my hands down below my waist. That was the way I was taught to get up and out of the water to get your breath of air. Today, I found out what was wrong with my frog kick was that my toes kept pointing to the bottom of the pool. They want it angled more to the side. Anyway, I am trying to build my muscle memory for the way they want it. Law of primacy sometimes keeps me from doing it the right way, but practice is going to make perfect.

Enjoy your 4th of July! Hopefully it's not raining over here in Milton.

 

[N83]

I did a little research on-line back to the originator of the Drownproofing technique and other up-to-date Prone Float/Deadman's Float on-line resources as well as an early AW thread discussing same issue. Appears that they all acknowledge some people are flat out negatively buoyant and it's critical to master the technique especially drawing in as much air as possible. Even then, you're going to sink more than the average person.

Note: I even ran across the way swim quals go at BUD/S (see negatively buoyant aspiring SEAL on far right)

They're actually at the bottom because that's how they drownproof: they exhale enough air to sink, push up with their feet, then fully exhale/inhale when they breach the surface.

SynixMan: +1 on staying as deep as you can. If you so much as break the surface with your legs (I did my first time) you fail and have to retake it.

 

[AGonxAV8R]

Any tips for the tower jump/underwater swim?

Stay deep, as deep as you can, and just tell yourself I can do it... Ohh and inhale as you go down.....!

 

[pilotboy17]

Just wanted to give you all an update. After 3 weeks of swim hold, I finally got through the prone float. Once I figured out how to prone float (bend at the waist, breath deep, and limit movement - I would say no movement, but I needed a clap and frog kick to stay up), it was very easy. What usually messed me up after figuring out the float was the 2 minute tread before the float. The tread would tire me out and I couldn't seem to get my rhythm/breathing back to normal when it was float time.

Somehow this morning, everything I learned just clicked. I treaded a lot slower and didn't fight the water (which is what I did before). They say the tread is supposed to bring up your heart rate, but I guess I did it efficiently enough where I was calm and relaxed. Once I got to the float part with all the gear (minus helmet), I flaoted more than 8 minutes. The instructor didn't say anything even though I had exceeded the 6 minutes required for WS-5. I didn't feel fatigued at all...so that means I'm doing it right!

I tried it again with the helmet and it was hard for the first few minutes, but then I realized that if I didn't do anything, the helmet would still be at the surface.

Thanks for the help, everyone. Now I just have to do it once more when I get rolled back into classes on Monday or Tuesday.

-Drew

P.S. And I was wrong...despite what I thought about my body composition, I actually can float somewhat! My technique was just wrong the entire time.

 

[Lucy]

Congrats! Way to push through and continue on!