I see that - however at the time it wasnt showing up - I hadnt refreshed my browser in a while. My bad. Feel free to delete of course
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Rand study on USAF pilot retention
- Thread starter UInavy
- Start date
The Marine Corps Needs Warrant Officer Pilots - April Proceedings
Posting this link is not an endorsement of the idea. Also, standby for thread split
I especially love this part: "the Corps prides itself on its mustangs and on the responsibility it gives junior Marines. It should not be protecting a caste of commissioned officer pilots, especially in the midst of a legitimate personnel retention crisis."
I missed when the Marine Corps transitioned to a caste system...
There's no way that there's actually a real human being named Gunner Marine. Totally made up by PAOs.
It was worth reposting.
(Will anyone repost it a third time?)
I thought that was the entire Corps compared to the other services.
It sounds like something Duffelblog would write.
The irony is that he isn't a good example of a 'flying WO' since he did the standard route to Naval Aviator as a commissioned officer, then he transitioned to an NCO Navigator after Vietnam and only after all that did he become a CWO and a pilot again.
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Gunner is his rank as in he is an Marine Gunner (combat arms WO) distinguished by a bursting bomb on one collar and his WO rank on the other. His name really is Keith Marine. You can see him here...https://www.dvidshub.net/video/147820/cwo3-keith-marine
I will grant you that the article isn’t heavily researched but what is the issue with WO aviators? If I understand most of what I read here folks are leaving because they aren’t flying - WO’s fly (at least if you follow the Army model). Yes, Army WO’s have additional duties, but even those duties which are Instructor Pilot (IP), Aviation Safety Officer, Maintenance Test Pilot, or Tactical Operations Officer but these are flight involved. I understand that continuous deployments and QOL enter into the retention equation, but I get a sense that if a young person joins to fly they might stay longer if they fly more.
They tried this model in the Navy with very little success. It got awkward when the "commissioned" officers couldn't meet flight hour requirements or hold milestone jobs in the squadron due to lack of experience or quals. With limited resources, CO's were forced to choose who got what flight hours and qualifications. The Warrant Officer program was canceled.
Again, the problem (especially in VFA) is the combination of few resources with stifling career milestone requirements. It's been proven a Warrant Officer program will not solve these problems.
Again, the problem (especially in VFA) is the combination of few resources with stifling career milestone requirements. It's been proven a Warrant Officer program will not solve these problems.
I especially laugh at this nonsense. Cfam, this isn’t aimed at you. If anyone thinks the marines pride themselves on the responsibility it gives its junior marines...
I like the idea. I’ve seen it. On a small scale. Before.
That idea is dead. Company and field grade officers can’t make a combat decision without the “real time” approval.
These days decisions come from well above.
The way the Army treats its aviation assets and aviators is much different than the other services, who treat aviation as a separate warfare discipline and train their aviators that way. The Army seems to treat their aviation assets as just another vehicle to transport troops or shoot up the enemy right in front of those troops, they are just as good as their fellow military aviators but their focus is much more narrow. That is why WO pilots work for the Army and less so the other services though a few areas, like some UAV's, could likely benefit from that focus.
I think the Gunner's comments reflect that narrow view of military aviation, ignoring how the larger world of military aviation works for him and his fellow service members.
Fair enough. As I wrote, and I could be missing a lot, it seems to me the missing piece in retention is flight time. WO’s may not be the answer but I remain interested in potential solutions.