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Randy Cunningham article....not flattering

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
None
Super Moderator
Contributor
Blutonski816 said:
I will say you're right... I didn't put it into context...
just giving an example of Cunninham's less than tactful approach to certain situations...

Here's an exerpt from Wilcox's book about the above statement...

[Cunningham] wasn't much of a diplomat. Once, when a previous skipper insisted that the squadron carry only wingtanks in combat, Cunningham marched in ready to do battle.
"The airplane doesn't perform as well [with wingtanks]," he told his skipper. And the skipper's excuse was, 'well we get a thousand pounds more fuel by usingg wing tanks instead of centerline.' He added,'We're not going to use centerline because our sister squadron is using centerline....' "To me that was ludicrous. I told him he was fvcked up. I went to him and proved it.... I showed him even in Korea when they blew off their wingtanks [if both didn't release] you'd have a heavy wing plus induced drag. The actual usable fuel you got was only a couple hundred pounds....
"I was a maverick and a purist." But he admits, "That was wrong.... You don't walk up to a skipper and tell him he's fvcked up."

Great research and reads better in context! He's not the only JO that argued over things like this...just not very diplomatic about it. And sometimes the JOs are right...some skippers get wrapped up in being the CO and relay on the hard charging JOs to stay on the leading edge of tactics and the like. Just have to be smart on how you raise issues and not get into emotional tirades about it. Here's the book he's talking about:
 

Catmando

Keep your knots up.
pilot
Super Moderator
Contributor
bunk22 said:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/cunningham/20060115-9999-lz1n15legend.html

Those who knew him or served during this time might find this article interesting (A4's).

As much as I don't want to, I suppose I should weigh in on this tragic and sordid business for three reasons: I knew Cunningham back then; I knew almost all of the people quoted in the article; and I have first hand knowledge of many of the details contained in the article.

[Incidentally, I had a Union-Tribune reporter contact me two weeks ago about Cunningham, which I assume may have been about this story. Having been burned before on "background", I declined any comment.]

There were no surprises in the article for me. Much of what was said about Cunningham was fairly accurate, and was common knowledge at the time. But generally, we all kept it amongst ourselves, so the general public – including many in the Navy - was never aware.

What was surprising to me however, was the quality of people quoted in the article. "Fingers", "Mugs", Ruff, and the others quoted were all revered icons of that period. That such respected voices support a story critical of Cunningham, and one that ran on the front page, "above the fold" in the Union-Tribune was a real surprise to me. [This is {was?} a very conservative newspaper that had long been very supportive of Cunningham.]

I have also read with interest, the various opinions expressed about Cunningham, on this, and other forums. Unfortunately, many dance politely around the elephant in the room - that he is now a self-admitted criminal of serious and multiple crimes. After adamantly and publicly denying any and all culpability for several months, Cunningham, finally - and only when totally cornered – tearfully admits to breaking serious federal laws regarding tax evasion and bribery, then asks for mercy.

To those who believe he didn't do much more than many others, and this is somehow business as usual, let me point to the U.S Attorney's quote: "This was a crime of unprecedented magnitude and extraordinary audacity." (U.S. Attorney Carol Lam) Openly and blatantly living it up with $2.4 million in bribe money, and underpaying in one year tax on $120,000 but having actual, unreported income of over 10-times that amount, ($1.2 million) are not common. Indeed, his is the largest bribery case in Congressional history.

To those who believe his undeniable ace status and heroic achievement should somehow mitigate his crimes, I say this: I would never expect my combat missions to ever allow me to break any law – to embezzle a little money for each combat mission, or rob a 7-11 for each Air Medal. If I ever did a crime, I would expect the full penalty for that crime, regardless of any ancient (or recent) and irrelevant combat history.

To those who believe everyone has his price, I say this: I hope not, but perhaps they do. I don't really know. What I do know is that most of our Vietnam POW's, if they ever had a price, the enemy couldn't reach it. Those guys endured incredible hardships and torture, rather than to be bought off with a little special treatment, a cigarette, or an early repatriation. If everyone does in fact have his "price", then the "cheap" and the "expensive" live in far different and separated universes.

Like most politicians, Cunningham presented many different facades to many different people, depending upon the circumstance. That is why opinions of him vary so.

Finally, I would never discount Cunningham's extraordinary ability and heroic achievement in the air. Likewise, I acknowledge his significant benefit to his district's constituents, San Diego's defense contractors, the City, and to the U.S. Navy – especially Naval Aviation. Those are all undeniable.

But likewise, I do not and will not discount his serious crimes and flawed character. This is a tragedy on several levels – but it is a tragedy of Cunningham's own making.
 

BlkPny

Registered User
pilot
You know, being an Ace, a Naval Officer, a Naval Aviator, an Congressman, or being a banker, a carpenter, a school teacher, it all boils down to integrity and personal honor. If you represent constituents, or have people working for you, or have only yourself to answer to, you absolutely must have integrity and personal honor. As young officers you will have young enlisted men looking up to you as role models. Don't cheat them.
 

Falcaner

DCA "Don't give up the ship"
I have seen some exceptional leaders in my four years in the navy ones I would follow into fire, and I have seen ones who couldn't lead their way out of a paper bag. I would have to say from what I read in the article that Cunningham was not at one end or the other but more somewhere in between. But one thing I took away more then anything was Cunningham was a person who believe his own press clippings and hubris brought him down in the end. He believes so strongly that he was untouchable that he actually believed that he could get away with something as brazen and buying Royals Royce. Last time I checked you couldn’t get one of those on a military pension. But I strongly disagree that everyone has a price, men and women who have come before us didn't have a price. But unfortunately Cunningham was lead down the primrose path and now he alone must pay the piper, I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.
 

A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
Yeah, and richly deserved ... the ultimate self-inflicted wound. But it still hurts me to think about Cunningham spending the next 8+ years in the slammer. It hurts all of us in Naval Aviation .... it hurts that one we held so high has fallen so low. It hurts the Brotherhood ...

All men have feet of clay. It's just a question of degree .... there's a lesson in life there, also.
 

BOMBSonHAWKEYES

Registered User
pilot
does anyone know what kind of deals he made as a result of those bribes? I'd like to know if its something I might be sailing or flying on.
 

Flash

SEVAL/ECMO
None
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Contributor
BOMBSonHAWKEYES said:
does anyone know what kind of deals he made as a result of those bribes? I'd like to know if its something I might be sailing or flying on.

Most of the deals that MZM, the company that is at the center of the controversy and whose former president and CEO Mitchell Wade just plead guilty to bribing Cummingham (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060224/ap_on_go_co/congressman_bribery_plea), had were for contractor support to several DOD agencies but never really made any weapon systems.

An example would be one of the contracts that came up in the bribe scandal.

"In November 2002, MZM opened a computer center in Charlottesville, Va., to house classified engineering intelligence in a digital mapping and architecture analysis system. Twelve employees in that office are developing the program for the Pentagon. It is designed to provide digital maps of thousands of buildings worldwide." http://www.publicintegrity.org/wow/bio.aspx?act=pro&ddlC=40

The scandal about the contract was about this:

"Two months after MZM Inc. was given its first order in October 2002 to perform services for the Army's National Ground Intelligence Center (NGIC), the company hired the son of the center's senior civilian official, Executive Director William S. Rich Jr., according to present and former intelligence center employees."

and this:

"When the senior Rich resigned from the NGIC in September 2003, he joined MZM as a senior executive vice president for intelligence."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/16/AR2005071601018.html?nav=rss_nation

There is big money in contracting for personnel and computer services these days. I work alongside quite a number of contractors, almost all retired military, and have had to deal with some computer programs developed by contractors. While the guys I work with are almost all top-notch guys, they are mostly doing jobs that should be filled by a civil servant or a servicemember. I am in a bit of a unique job setting, but there is a huge reliance on contractors in this area nowadays. Additionally, there was a web program that my office contracted for recently that some contractors spent a year and $800,000 dollars on. We ended up cancelling the contract because they could not deliver even a fraction of the capabilities they were contracted for (and no, we did not get the money back:icon_rage ).

So I can see how this ended up in a bribery scandal. There is so much money going out nowadays for security and defese it should be no suprise to see this kind of stuff happening. It attracts all types, the good the bad and the ugly....... :(
 

HeyJoe

Fly Navy! ...or USMC
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Super Moderator
Contributor
A4sForever said:
Yeah, and richly deserved ... the ultimate self-inflicted wound. But it still hurts me to think about Cunningham spending the next 8+ years in the slammer. It hurts all of us in Naval Aviation .... it hurts that one we held so high has fallen so low. It hurts the Brotherhood ...

All men have feet of clay. It's just a question of degree .... there's a lesson in life there, also.

So true. It taints us all.
 

snort

Banned
FA-18 Mousse said:
He was my first skipper in the Navy while I was stashed in VF-126 prior to flight school and I distinctly remember the talk around the RR when Duke's career came up one day. Believe the bottom line on his career was aptly stated by one of his senior Dept Heads as: "Great Stick, Lousy Officer". Pretty powerful statement for an ensign to hear and one I have not forgotten to this day.

Duke has lived his life squarely "on the edge" and his current chapter in life is no different.

My two cents.....
I did a tour with the Bandits and heard the same poop. Basically, he had great flight skills, but his leadership, and later his morals were lousy. What a shame.


(Warning and note to readers: snort has not been able to verify that he is a Naval Aviator)
 

USMCBebop

SergeantLieutenant
Pained Fan

I had the pleasure of meeting Duke Cunningham. It pains me to think of what he did and where he has to spend the next eight years.

Unfortunately if you don't respect money, especially in the political environment he was in, then it comes back at you with a vengeance.

I did hear about his being less diplomatic when he was an officer. Hey, when I got commissioned, I learned quickly you have to learn to be "political" (or at least learn to deal with politics), or you're screwed! There are a lot of darksides when you deal with a political world, and unfortunately Duke had to be tempted by and fell for them. :(
 
B

Blutonski816

Guest
USMCBebop said:
I had the pleasure of meeting Duke Cunningham. It pains me to think of what he did and where he has to spend the next eight years.

Unfortunately if you don't respect money, especially in the political environment he was in, then it comes back at you with a vengeance.

I did hear about his being less diplomatic when he was an officer. Hey, when I got commissioned, I learned quickly you have to learn to be "political" (or at least learn to deal with politics), or you're screwed! There are a lot of darksides when you deal with a political world, and unfortunately Duke had to be tempted by and fell for them. :(

The Dark Side of the Force is a path to many abilities some consider to be unnatural...
93780-R.jpg


But in all seriousness, I'll have to agree. Politics play a role in almost everything in the real world these days, and it is a dark and dirty world a lot of times... Still, it's always a dissapointment to see a guy like Cunningham who was very much esteemed compromise his morals by getting involved in such shady dealings.
 
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