Re-designating at OCS (VERY IMPORTANT)

[Tycho_Brohe]

What are people usually NPQ'd for after OCS? Is it mainly a pilot thing or should the rest of us be worried? I can't imagine going through everything just to get booted out the door at the last minute, if not for your career for your mental sanity.

In my experience, mainly a pilot/NFO thing, which is why it's called the NAMI whammy. They recheck the eyes and anthros once you get to API, so if someone's marginal for either, they may have gotten by at MEPS or Medical Monday, and then told they're not PQ in Pensacola.

 

[BeLikeMike]

In my experience, mainly a pilot/NFO thing, which is why it's called the NAMI whammy. They recheck the eyes and anthros once you get to API, so if someone's marginal for either, they may have gotten by at MEPS or Medical Monday, and then told they're not PQ in Pensacola.

How does a person get NPQ when it comes to anthros?

 

[LFCFan]

What are people usually NPQ'd for after OCS? Is it mainly a pilot thing or should the rest of us be worried? I can't imagine going through everything just to get booted out the door at the last minute, if not for your career for your mental sanity.

It is rare, but it happens to other designators sometimes. If you aren't going aviation, you will probably be struck by lightning before you get NPQed at OCS. I knew of two people in the last 6 months. Both nukes/NUPOC. One had started taking some psychiatric medication and no one caught it prior to him going to OCS (even though he gave the Navy the required updates or whatever), and the other had something weird in his eye. The nuke community ended up allowing the latter to stay on as a USNR power school instructor in Charleston (not normally an OCS gig, DCO I think), likely to get their investment back. So he only sort-of counts because he still ended up commissioning.

How does a person get NPQ when it comes to anthros?

1. Sitting height, which in laymen's terms is a very long back (I had this, damn stumpy legs!)
2. Long thigh...basically back of your ass to your knee can be too long.
3. Short arms, usually happens to tiny females.
I think that's it.

In a way this is the mother of all whammies because you usually have no idea that it is coming and it isn't waiverable (at least for new aviators).

 

[exNavyOffRec]

In my experience, mainly a pilot/NFO thing, which is why it's called the NAMI whammy. They recheck the eyes and anthros once you get to API, so if someone's marginal for either, they may have gotten by at MEPS or Medical Monday, and then told they're not PQ in Pensacola.

MEPS doesn't check anthros, and lets be honest, does anyone put stock in what MEPS says about your eyes

 

[exNavyOffRec]

One had started taking some psychiatric medication and no one caught it prior to him going to OCS (even though he gave the Navy the required updates or whatever).

This could be considered fraudulent enlistment.

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

MEPS doesn't check anthros

Oh that's right, they have you do it yourself, and then they check it on Medical Monday. Stupid policy, if you ask me. They could NPQ you right there. Would it kill them to take an extra five minutes to do it at MEPS, so you know before you get to OCS whether or not you're good to go?

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Oh that's right, they have you do it yourself, and then they check it on Medical Monday. Stupid policy, if you ask me. They could NPQ you right there. Would it kill them to take an extra five minutes to do it at MEPS, so you know before you get to OCS whether or not you're good to go?

The measurements are supposed to be taken by the OR and submitted with the application, we had the min and max measurements on hand so if a person was way off we would know.

measurements at MEPS wouldn't carry anymore weight in this circumstance.

 

[BusyBee604]

Is it mainly a pilot thing or should the rest of us be worried? I can't imagine going through everything just to get booted out the door at the last minute, if not for your career for your mental sanity.

It's easy for me to advise I know, but worrying never resolved a thing, but it certainly detracts from the performance of the task at hand. Although rare, anyone at anytime, can be booted for unforeseen physical or other problems. Worrying becomes valid only if you are hiding a physical or some other condition, which would DQ you if revealed.

I am just waiting for the awkward moment when my clearance investigator calls my boss to verify that I work there...

No need to worry there either, if your boss is a decent 'citizen' and leader, you'll get a pat on the back, and encouragement (maybe even a return opportunity if you 'pro rec N' or drop out of the program). If not, it's probably not a workplace environment within which you would want to build a career.
BzB

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

The measurements are supposed to be taken by the OR and submitted with the application, we had the min and max measurements on hand so if a person was way off we would know.

measurements at MEPS wouldn't carry anymore weight in this circumstance.

Still, there should be some way for NAMI/NOMI to sign off on it before you show up, especially since the new policy would preclude someone from redesignating at OCS.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

Still, there should be some way for NAMI/NOMI to sign off on it before you show up, especially since the new policy would preclude someone from redesignating at OCS.

They would have to have measurements done by someone qualified to make that call, not sure if the measurements at OCS or NAMI are done by a qualified HM or Doc, but either way given the new policy I do agree with you.

 

[xmid]

In a way this is the mother of all whammies because you usually have no idea that it is coming and it isn't waiverable (at least for new aviators).

It actually can be (and is) waived for certain platforms. I stashed in anthro while in A-pool and was the one that printed off the "waiver" or statement of understanding form. I forget now, but you either had to be anthro eligible for one or two platforms. We had everything from small females who's arms weren't long enough for reaching all the necessary switches and buttons in certain cockpits to guy's who's ass to knee length put them outside the envelope for a safe ejection in the T-45. The later was the most common. My boss used to rant about how the Navy bought a British aircraft that was designed for the slightly smaller British stature. The "waiver" was a form the SNA would sign acknowledging that an ejection from a T-45 might kill them. The anthro tolerance for fleet aircraft after winging from the tailhook program was larger and the pilot/NFO usually would not have to worry about ejection issues anymore. Occasionally, they would put an SNA/SNFO in the actual fleet aircraft's cockpit and made sure they could perform any button mashing/egress that might be necessary. I personally never saw someone anthro'ed out of aviation completely, although occasionally someone was only eligible to fly a couple platforms.

The guy that made the final call was a flight physiologist. The one I worked for was a prior prowler NFO.

 

[Tycho_Brohe]

I forget now, but you either had to be anthro eligible for one or two platforms.

I heard you needed two out of three: helo, maritime, and tailhook, or something like that. I don't know why helo isn't a gimme right there, since you can't eject, so you don't have to worry about shearing your legs off, and I figure since they don't have ejection seats, they can slide their seats forward for people with shorter arms.

We had everything from small females who's arms weren't long enough for reaching all the necessary switches and buttons in certain cockpits to guy's who's ass to knee length put them outside the envelope for a safe ejection in the T-45. The later was the most common.

We had one of the former in our class, her arms were like a quarter of an inch too short. Why couldn't you do the same thing with the waiver, except reword it to say something like "I understand that if I loosen the harnesses a tiny bit to reach the buttons, I might get killed during ejection"?

 

[Oneil]

First thing my OR did was measure me - the one thing he got right.

 

[exNavyOffRec]

It actually can be (and is) waived for certain platforms. I stashed in anthro while in A-pool and was the one that printed off the "waiver" or statement of understanding form. I forget now, but you either had to be anthro eligible for one or two platforms. We had everything from small females who's arms weren't long enough for reaching all the necessary switches and buttons in certain cockpits to guy's who's ass to knee length put them outside the envelope for a safe ejection in the T-45. The later was the most common. My boss used to rant about how the Navy bought a British aircraft that was designed for the slightly smaller British stature. The "waiver" was a form the SNA would sign acknowledging that an ejection from a T-45 might kill them. The anthro tolerance for fleet aircraft after winging from the tailhook program was larger and the pilot/NFO usually would not have to worry about ejection issues anymore. Occasionally, they would put an SNA/SNFO in the actual fleet aircraft's cockpit and made sure they could perform any button mashing/egress that might be necessary. I personally never saw someone anthro'ed out of aviation completely, although occasionally someone was only eligible to fly a couple platforms.

The guy that made the final call was a flight physiologist. The one I worked for was a prior prowler NFO.

out of all the people I measured, and it was quite a few, I never measured anyone that was close to either the min or max, many had some play either way, and I was as precise as I could be.

 

[LFCFan]

This could be considered fraudulent enlistment.

When I spoke to him about it in student pool, he went through MEPS early on in NUPOC, started taking the meds later, but said he kept the Navy abreast of what was going on through whatever means NUPOCers do that. When he went through medical monday and listed some meds they didn't like, he was NPQed on the spot. I never got the impression that he was doing anything fraudulent, but that he got help for a problem and someone in big Navy didn't catch on until he showed up at OCS.

They would have to have measurements done by someone qualified to make that call, not sure if the measurements at OCS or NAMI are done by a qualified HM or Doc, but either way given the new policy I do agree with you.

They were done by HMs. The doc at OCS explained to me when I was anthroed out that they are qualified on it, and that the recruiter measurement was just to catch people who were way way off.

It actually can be (and is) waived for certain platforms.

....to guy's who's ass to knee length put them outside the envelope for a safe ejection in the T-45. The later was the most common. ... The "waiver" was a form the SNA would sign acknowledging that an ejection from a T-45 might kill them.

Can't an ejection from anything kill you? Still, I see your point. It was explained to me that you had to be good to go for 2 out of 3 platforms. My NAMI letter never said which ones for me, but the doc at OCS said he thinks it was my sitting height keeping me out of jet and helo trainers. I don't remember my measurements. I could see how the ass-knee thing could be signed off on, but if the canopy won't close and the seat is all the way down, there is nothing they can do I guess. I suppose that sitting height is probably non-waiverable then.