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Really stupid questions about life as a SWO and anything else not aviation related [mod dog wuz hərə]

SWO Bubba

Well-Known Member
None
So what about the previous 5-10 years? The frigates I've been on have always been over-manned. You're right, I don't know enough about the specifics of the community to claim cause and effect, but lots of Ensigns around initially and then hearing ~40% (or less) does make me wonder.

I saw a slide recently from PERS-41 showing a 35 year history of SWO accessions versus retention. Don't quote me, but I recall the historical retention average being around 33% or so. Also, don't quote me on the below - it was very intersting and I think my memory is accurate:

The accession graph was fascinating as you could clearly see how the pol-mil environment shaped the force. Things looked a little depressing in the mid-70's and early 80's. Reagan's tenure saw a huge spike in accessions in '85 and '86. Accessions in the early 90's went way low and account for the 35 year low numbers. Then the numbers came back up in the late-90s and early '00s. There was a dip in the '03-'04 timeframe and a jump this year.

On the retention, the worst numbers (low 20 percent) were in the early 90's. Interstingly, this corresponds to point when the high accessions from '85 and '86 were making their decision to stay or get out. Basically, from YG84 to YG92, retention was terrible! Starting with YG93 and clearly jumping with YG95, retention jumped back to the low to mid 30 percents.

I also recently saw an aviation snapshot of one year (I think it was 2009) showing around a 48% retention between 7 and 12 YCS. I really couldn't get my arms around the number since it somehow captured all YGs between 7 and 12 YCS. I suspect retention for aviators is still in the mid to high 40s past 12 YCS. I think aviation retention is higher since Aviators have longer paybacks pushing them closer to the 20 YCS mark. A SWO LT at the 5 YCS point can have a drastically different outlook on things compared to an aviator LCDR at the 11-12 YCS mark.

I also know the SWO manning model specifically accounts for a certain number of SWO option and lat/xfers to the RL and Staff Corps. Since many of those communities don't direct access, they rely on transfers from SWO/SUB and attrites from Aviation. If they those RL and Staff Community Managers want a programed influx, SWO accessions is the way to go by simply accounting for larger numbers out due to options and lat/xfers. You can't plus up aviation or subs - it's a non-starter.

So, surface ships will be busting at the seams with Ensigns for a couple of years. According to that graph I recall, we went through this in other spikes including '86, '99, '00 and here in '10.
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
Is SWO EOOW like nuke EOOW? Eg, if you have a 4th grade reading comprehension level, are anal retentive about following procedures, and can memorize immediate actions for 4 casualties that require you to actually do something you can operate the propulsion plant safely?

Standard approach to EOOW, I don't know how it compares to nuke, but from your description, it sounds about right.
 

BigRed389

Registered User
None
I see now, I thought there may be more given that there are various departments on board the ship.
How many different departments are there btw?

Again, depends on platform.

But DDG - Engineering, Weapons, Combat Systems, Operations, Supply
FFG - Weapons is under Combat Systems.

Bigger ships have more...Deck is a division within Operations Dept on a DDG, but an entire department on CVNs/LHDs/LHAs.
 

Gatordev

Well-Known Member
pilot
Site Admin
Contributor
Again, depends on platform.

But DDG - Engineering, Weapons, Combat Systems, Operations, Supply
FFG - Weapons is under Combat Systems.

Ahem...you're forgetting one. Air! Though on a FFG, you could argue it IS the Weapons department.
 

navybronxbomber

New Member
Hey all, I'm going to be selecting next year. I'm most likely going to try and pick a frigate, but I was wondering, does going MCM completely ruin your career? I hear going MCM screws you down the road because of the lack of weapons systems etc. Is this true? MCM operations just look sorta cool, and I was wondering if trying to pick one would be death.
 

SWO Bubba

Well-Known Member
None
Hey all, I'm going to be selecting next year. I'm most likely going to try and pick a frigate, but I was wondering, does going MCM completely ruin your career? I hear going MCM screws you down the road because of the lack of weapons systems etc. Is this true? MCM operations just look sorta cool, and I was wondering if trying to pick one would be death.

Going MCM absolutely does not ruin your career as long as you look 10 years down the road and incorporate it into your plan. The guideline from PERS-41 is to do 3 out of your 4 initial sea tours (2 as a divo and 2 as a Department Head) in mainstream SWO commands. The issue is whether or not MCM is viewed as mainstream. Mine Warfare guys will usually argue it is a mainstream community. Mine warfare is very important - just ask the guys on ROKS Cheonan who most likely lost their ship to a mine. However, you won't get the breadth of knowledge of warfare areas aboard an MCM that you will aboard CRUDES or AMPHIB platform - AW, SUW, ASW, NSFS, Strike, AMW, etc, etc. Of course, you will learn things about MIW that many SWOs don't learn through their entire career - and that's good. You will also be leaned on heavily to perform aboard an MCM; there is no hiding. If you want to go MCM for your 1st tour then GO FOR IT. Just understand you really need to do the other 3 tours as Divo and DH in mainstream commands in the AMPHIB/CRUDES world - no big decks, no NECC (Riverine, MSRON, etc). Think DDG, CG, LPD, LSD.
 

phrogdriver

More humble than you would understand
pilot
Super Moderator
They had a bunch of MCMs in Bahrain when we were there a few months back. I liked the sign on the ship,"Ships of wood, men of iron."

Could've been,"Men with wood," though. That would've been funnier. I'm so juvenile sometimes.

It looked like their only weapons system was some machine guns on the sides.
 
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