In that case, why not send up 5-wet growlers?
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Road to 350: What Does the US Navy Do Anyway?
- Thread starter Randy Daytona
- Start date
I don't get this, how is this not a job for some SOCOM folks? Since when did it become the exclusive provenance of the Marines to do Embassy evacuations? The folks who did the evacuation did it well and without any apparent issues, so what is the problem? It isn't like we have a thin bench from which to draw even for SOCOM, there are plenty of other SOF personnel out there to kill and capture whoever needs it while one team goes to get our folks out of harms way.
You are kind of asking a version of the “Why do we have aircraft carriers when the AF can do the job? since when has projecting air power the exclusive provenance of the Carrier Air Wing?” Primarily, to both questions, because they have other, highly focused, work to accomplish. NEO is an unnecessary mission shift as we already have people to do that. Look at it this way. Years ago Army SF was tasked, primarily, with organizing and training indigenous forces - a critical job. But, they surrendered that to do direct action missions - formerly the domain of SEALS - who only did it in maritime and riverine environments. Now all Tier 2 SOF is focused on DA doing tactical (local) while DEVGRU and Delta (Tier 1) doing strategic (global). To fill the gap the Army was forced to create Military Training Teams by pulling experienced soldiers from line battalions, but now that the long war is over that mission has gone to the wayside. When the next war starts we simply won’t have a serious plan for training indigenous forces. Also, if tomorrow the Pentagon ordered our Tier 1 forces to assume the NEO mission they would pitch a fit and eventually drive the mission downward to Tier 2 forces and then they would eventually force it back to conventional forces who, by that point, will have lost the muscle memory.
If you want to send in the Rangers (Tier 2), fine. If you want to use a “ordinary” SFODA or SEAL Team, dig in. But wasting our highest level, ready-to-go, direct action strategic force to do a conventional rescue mission is not wise use of resources…as I noted, it is the same as sending 25 VFA pilots in charge of 75 enlisted kids from an air wing. They could do the job….but there are already people around to do it. If, however, they (the Marines) aren’t going to be given the tools, then take the job from them and see how well it works with the SOF community. While you are at it, get rid of eight of our 10 carrier air wings…a few SEALS could take out a target a lot cheaper than using a $78 million dollar F-35 flying from a $13.3 billion carrier. Right?
That’s all I’m really exploring here. I was assured they were engaged in something more important that would require a SCIF to discuss.
Because there’s no such thing. ?
No...no....no....The examples you use are nothing like the one that just happened. We didn't 'waste' anything when we sent some Tier 1 folks in to get our people out of danger in Sudan, what is a more important mission than the safety and security of Americans? NEO is not a primary mission set for anyone that I know of but one of a full set of missions that Marines and others train for in addition to many others. And Tier 1 units aren't some gold-plated Fabergé egg that you can only pull out for the fancy parties, they were used for the mission and are now back to doing whatever Tier 1 units do.
Seriously, I haven't a fucking clue why this is even an argument other than folks getting annoyed because someone played in what they think is their sandbox and getting their knickers in a twist over it. The Americans that were evacuated from Sudan are safe and sound, and recovered without any casualties resulting. In the end that is all that matters, almost anything else is absolutely pointless.
No…no…no…these aren’t grunts. These are incredibly well trained strategic assets. I’ll make it simple…if a bored, slightly stoned 15 year old Sudanese militia “kid” managed to down a MH-47 with an RPG killing a handful of SEALS and some SOAR pilots the impact would ripple well beyond the flag-draped coffins. In short, they have better, and more important, things to do. They are not a toy or an impact statement, they are a serious tool dangerously misused for a simple job.
It’s not about the outcome, it is about the precedence it sets.
I can say that there were units (perhaps not ground units) pulled from other ops, and we
They were not as important as evacuating Americans from an embassy.
Sure…let’s just use carrier air wings to deliver international air mail. It’s the same fucking thing and just as idiotic as your stupid reply.
Well. Our mission and the folks we support certainly changed for that period of time. We can't prove a negative, but who knows what fleeting opportunity that we train for in detail and regularly with our supported unit we missed because they/we had to pick up and do someone else's job.
Because it would be… silly… to use a high end, expensive, specialized asset to do something that could be done by a cheaper asset that can do the job just as well.
All righty then.
It seems now you are getting the point.
@Flash doesn't believe precedents can lead to follow on courses of action justified by the original precedent and likely leading to an unintended and/or unwelcome consequence.