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Roger Ball, good and not-so-good questions about the world of "Paddles"
- Thread starter TheDrakester
- Start date
It has been a long time since I've waved but differenct aircraft have different performance parameters. A Hornet will come aboard at 145 knots on speed while a COD 108 knots on speed. Another example is the response time from the turboprop compared to the Hornet's motors are different. Have to recognize what each aircraft looks like on speed as well. There's more and a current, much more qualified LSO can chime in. An LSO has to know how to wave all aircraft and what characteristics those aircraft bring with them to the boat.
2ndGen
Third times a charm
Ok, that makes a lot of sense, thank you.
All excellent answers to your question...and to add a little more info if you happen to care. The quals are broken down as such:
Field- Can only wave the A/C they fly at the field.
Squadron- Can only wave the A/C they fly at the boat.
Wing- Can wave any A/C anywhere.
Training- Same as Wing but, can wave Students too.
CAG Paddles- Post shore tour billet (already a Training Qual)
AIRLANT/AIRPAC/CNATRA/LSO School OIC Paddles- usually post CAG tour (highest LSO status)
Only requirement for recovering A/C is that there's at least one Wing (or higher) qualified LSO on the platform. Although, this is usually only done during fly on/offs (or the occasional bag x). The rest of the peanut gallery helps with all the other jobs mentioned above or is in training.
Ultimately CAG Paddles runs the show and that's his dedicated job on the boat (however, he gets to fly too).
Field- Can only wave the A/C they fly at the field.
Squadron- Can only wave the A/C they fly at the boat.
Wing- Can wave any A/C anywhere.
Training- Same as Wing but, can wave Students too.
CAG Paddles- Post shore tour billet (already a Training Qual)
AIRLANT/AIRPAC/CNATRA/LSO School OIC Paddles- usually post CAG tour (highest LSO status)
Only requirement for recovering A/C is that there's at least one Wing (or higher) qualified LSO on the platform. Although, this is usually only done during fly on/offs (or the occasional bag x). The rest of the peanut gallery helps with all the other jobs mentioned above or is in training.
Ultimately CAG Paddles runs the show and that's his dedicated job on the boat (however, he gets to fly too).
From the LSO thread...
How much harder is it to bring in a student to the boat than your typical pilot? I understand that it being a brand new pilot and all makes it potentially more dangerous, but then again from the way I understand it any trap can be dangerous.
Does it take a lot more guidence, more yelling, more years off your life, etc. to bring a student in vice a "salty" pilot? Is it THAT much of a different experience? I can see why you would want the "best" LSOs to bring in the students though.
And I dont mean to make it sound like I think studs suck - I sure as hell cant do any of this. Just curious how it seemed from the LSOs pov
How much harder is it to bring in a student to the boat than your typical pilot? I understand that it being a brand new pilot and all makes it potentially more dangerous, but then again from the way I understand it any trap can be dangerous.
Does it take a lot more guidence, more yelling, more years off your life, etc. to bring a student in vice a "salty" pilot? Is it THAT much of a different experience? I can see why you would want the "best" LSOs to bring in the students though.
And I dont mean to make it sound like I think studs suck - I sure as hell cant do any of this. Just curious how it seemed from the LSOs pov
Pretend you're the guy in the white uni ... they're kinda' like this:
Yeah, so if the guy in the white uni is a Boston Celtic... and Boston Celtic is about to get TKO BLASTED... then in-flight arrestments are good, no!?
So LSO's: Are there any figures on paddles killed/injured "in the line of duty?" How frequently does one jump to the net - any near misses, A4's?
Never had to go to the net "for real" ... I preferred to stay in the game instead of bailing out ...
Students just have to be watched more closely. Basically you move your wave off window WAY back. The biggest difference is a student will make a correction that doesn't even make sense (like sucking off power and lowering the nose when they are low and underpowerd) and will catch you off guard,if you let it.
Fortunately, that only happens about 5% of the time. The other 95% of the time they are very good and predictable by the time you take them to the boat.
Fortunately, that only happens about 5% of the time. The other 95% of the time they are very good and predictable by the time you take them to the boat.
This is mostly correct, in my experience.
When I bumped to TRAINING LSO I moved my WAVE-OFF point back, but not "way back" ... as a "tailhook" Naval Aviator -- even a "wannabe"/one to be -- has to meet a bottom line standard; one to which we've already trained. STUDS have to meet a different performance expectation when measured against a Fleet Aviator, but I get your point and it's correct -- mebbe we're just talkin' semantics. What does "is" mean, anyway??? Or "way back", for that matter???
I personally never had a STUD make a correction "that didn't make sense" ... as they either made the corrections that they "should" ... or what I called for if they didn't .... or I waved 'em off w/out hesitation. And then "we" had a "chat" re: their flying skills and desired level of response w/ their young skulls full of cottage cheese on their trip downwind ...
I never took a STUD to the BOAT that I didn't think would respond "properly" ... and fortunately for me ... that worst case scenario never happened. The closest I ever came to a STUD-disaster was when I climbed up on the PLATFORM during a TRACOM STUD CQ-ex on the LEX. Having just trapped aboard myself, I had dumped my gear and went up to the PLATFORM w/the intent of "supervising" -- only to find a Beeville T-2 on approach IC-AR w/ a "dangerous" (my opinion) left drift -- and on the PLATFORM NOBODYs "mouth" was moving -- so w/out the benefit of a radio, I started shouting "LINE-UP!!! LINE-UP!!!" at the controlling LSO's while still climbing onto the PLATFORM, but sadly ... to no avail.
The STUD and the bird ended up in the port catwalk. Crash city.
I didn't get hit w/ it in the accident report, as I didn't have a radio and I'd just arrived on the PLATFORM -- literally; as in 5-10 seconds prior to the "over the side"-ex.
The controlling LSO was a "nice guy" and a former mate from the TRACOM many years prior ... a Whale-driver, a solid pilot, and excellent Instructor, and a good guy -- he later got command of a Whale squadron -- methinks mebbe it was VQ-1 (?) ... but as an LSO, especially when working w/STUDS ... he was out of his element.
markkyle66
Active Member
Actually ... your platform set-up is much nicer than we ever had -- whether it be 27C's or big decks -- specifically, our PLATs only worked @ 50% of the time (must have been a design defect -- and it was tough to see/use in the day in any case
Most of the nets I saw and used, including the LEXINGTON, were MUCH more than "maybe 2 feet" to the bottom ... more like 6-8 feet as you would need to egress the net to the weather deck and into a safety of a deck-edge hatch should you ever end up in a pile of assholes & elbows at the bottom of the net w/ burning JP spilling over from a flight deck crash.
Sometimes ... while waiting between recoveries after debriefing ... we'd jump into the net and catch some "Z's" or just "zone" while looking down 50' at the water passing by as it was relatively "safer" and not WX or noise impacted (again; it's all relative) like remaining on the PLATFORM would have been.
And then, of course, on one ship we dragged around a man-sized hole at the bottom of the net for two (three?) line periods w/ no "fix" by the Air Department, even though I bitched about it almost every day to the Leading CPO and @ every week to the BOSS. Totally UNSAT and unsafe, to boot.
HEY -- it wasn't THEIR ass that was going to drop 50 feet into the sea if the PLATFORM ever cleared itself into the "net" in extremis .... was it ???
Here are a few pictures from the Museum of Naval Aviation's LSO exhibit I snagged while visiting big bro over the hollidays. Figured you guys would like to see since it's fairly new. Pretty cool to see the gear from the different eras side by side.
Attachments
I saw it the other day....but it's still a work in progress.
-ea6bflyr
Amazing -- it was 4-5 years ago when I visited and bitched about the fact there was NOTHING in there whole place re: LSO's .... the guy I bitched to WAS a former LSO -- looked very dapper in sport coat & pencil-thin mustache -- kinda' like Errol Flynn on a good day -- and he said: "Yeah, we have to do something about that one of these days .... " :sleep_125
I am heading down that way tomorrow and taking the kids on Sunday... I'll take a peak..
