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Romney opts out of Presidental Race

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A4sForever

BTDT OLD GUY
pilot
Contributor
..... those that actually benefit from these scholarships are White, Anglo-Saxon males....
HEY!! Hallelujah !!! I know some of those guys !!! I went to skool w/ some of 'em !!! Flew in the NAVY with a couple !!! I even saw SOME of them in the airlines !!!

Aren't THOSE the same guys who pay most of the taxes in this country ... and in the "county", too ... ??? :)
 

QuagmireMcGuire

Kinder and Gentler
I even saw SOME of them ...!!!

You see them, too?!
bitenails.gif




Sorry, sir, I couldn't help it.:D
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry that Mass didn't have those scholarships available but where I'm from there are certain scholarships reserved for people who came from the rural, farming counties. Most of these counties have a very small minority population so those that actually benefit from these scholarships are White, Anglo-Saxon males.

Additionally, there are scholarships reserved for people who come from Irish-American families, scholarships reserved for people with red hair and green eyes and scholarships for people who are of German descent. So, yes, there are plenty of scholarships available for White, Anglo-Saxon Protestant males but they just don't say: these are for White, Anglo-Saxon Protestant males only.

Plus, I'm familiar with plenty of minority scholarships. Most only require descent (exception is American Indian which has much stringet requirements as set forth by federal law). So in the slight chance you have some Black blood in you, then I extend a warm welcome and a blessing to pursue a Black scholarship.

Sidenote: A girlfriend and I went to Hooters once. I walked away with a blistered tongue from the hot grease used to fry the wings in. I was unimpressed.

Lets see.. No "black blood" unless you go back to prehistoric times when we were all a bit darker, I am 1/16 or 1/32 Penobscot depending on who you ask, so I don't meet the requirements for any indian scholarships.

I don't know what you say about rural farming communities being all white. There were ~10-15% black and 25% Portuguese at my high school. Which is probably more "minority" than America as a whole.

If there was a United White Boy College Fund, there would be cries of racism from here to the end of the earth.

I call a spade a spade. In college, we had kids of people who pulled down $250K+ (mostly middle management at GM/FORD) whose kids had college funds, getting free rides. Why? They were black.

I had better SATs, better grades in a harder major. Know what I got? $1500 one semester from the school, and only because I was about to be booted for inability to pay. I got $500 from the local fire department in Carver for books, which only was a 1 semester deal. Another $300 from the lions club. Another 1 time deal. I appreciate them both, but they pale in comparison to the kids who were getting full tuition/room/board due to their skin color and the fact that they got into my school.

Affirmative action is nothing nowadays but "getting back at the (white) man".
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
But Masterbates, you benefitted from affirmative action because you were able to get a fine education at an institution which promotes diversity.
 

MasterBates

Well-Known Member
By diversity, do you mean some students who had no business being there but were let in due to a "sliding scale" for admission?
 

QuagmireMcGuire

Kinder and Gentler
Lets see.. No "black blood" unless you go back to prehistoric times when we were all a bit darker, I am 1/16 or 1/32 Penobscot depending on who you ask, so I don't meet the requirements for any indian scholarships.

Ah, the fun and gloriously manipulative world of Indian Blood Quantum and Tribal citizenship. Surprisingly, you may actually qualify for Penobscot Tribal citizenship if that was something you wanted to pursue. Seriously, you want that, let me know and I'll help you.

I don't know what you say about rural farming communities being all white. There were ~10-15% black and 25% Portuguese at my high school. Which is probably more "minority" than America as a whole.

Three things here:

1. I said "very small minority population" which is not the same thing as "all white".

2. I was speaking of the state from which I came.

3. The Portuguese are White.

If there was a United White Boy College Fund, there would be cries of racism from here to the end of the earth.

No, there may not be a United White Boy College Fund but I bet you there are college funds set aside for Latvian-Americans, Polish-Americans, etc. In essence, it amounts to the same thing as there ain't that big of an African presence in those countries, I reckon.

I call a spade a spade. In college, we had kids of people who pulled down $250K+ (mostly middle management at GM/FORD) whose kids had college funds, getting free rides. Why? They were black.

And I'll bet those kids also had some pretty good grades. In the Black community, it strikes me that the higher economic class from which a kid comes from, the more likely their parents are to take an interest in their education; thus, you aren't going to have kids who couldn't formulate a proper sentence.

I had better SATs, better grades in a harder major. Know what I got? $1500 one semester from the school, and only because I was about to be booted for inability to pay. I got $500 from the local fire department in Carver for books, which only was a 1 semester deal. Another $300 from the lions club. Another 1 time deal. I appreciate them both, but they pale in comparison to the kids who were getting full tuition/room/board due to their skin color and the fact that they got into my school.

Too bad you didn't know me then, I could have found some scholarships for you. There are some scholarships available to people who are descendants of certain tribes and there are scholarships available for people whose families came from specific European countries. And many of them go unclaimed because kids don't know they exist.

Affirmative action is nothing nowadays but "getting back at the (white) man".
:D
 

QuagmireMcGuire

Kinder and Gentler
By diversity, do you mean some students who had no business being there but were let in due to a "sliding scale" for admission?

Kind of like a certain somebody who is sitting in the White House? We call that a Legacy case and, for purposes of college admission, they are taken into account as a means to add to diversity.
 

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Additionally, there are scholarships reserved for people who come from Irish-American families, scholarships reserved for people with red hair and green eyes and scholarships for people who are of German descent. So, yes, there are plenty of scholarships available for White, Anglo-Saxon Protestant males but they just don't say: these are for White, Anglo-Saxon Protestant males only.

Sidenote: A girlfriend and I went to Hooters once. I walked away with a blistered tongue from the hot grease used to fry the wings in. I was unimpressed.

Bullshit. I'm going through the process now with my son and I can tell you he is extremely disadvantaged because his daddy is not a minority, not on welfare nor his only parent. I make too much money and am considered too affluent to recieve much of anything in the form of grants, scholarships or special admissions preference.

The fry cook preparing your wings at Hooters probably saw you and your girlfriend walk in and said: "boy, do I have some special wings for those two!!!"
 

QuagmireMcGuire

Kinder and Gentler
Bullshit. I'm going through the process now with my son and I can tell you he is extremely disadvantaged because his daddy is not a minority, not on welfare nor his only parent. I make too much money and am considered too affluent to recieve much of anything in the form of grants, scholarships or special admissions preference.

The fry cook preparing your wings at Hooters probably saw you and your girlfriend walk in and said: "boy, do I have some special wings for those two!!!"

I extend the same offer to you as I do to MB. If you feel comfortable sharing some info with me, I will help you find scholarships.
 

bert

Enjoying the real world
pilot
Contributor
I extend the same offer to you as I do to MB. If you feel comfortable sharing some info with me, I will help you find scholarships.

Among the things I learned in my brief stint in academia; there is way more money out there than people realize. It may not always be easy to find, but there are literally mountains of aid out there for a hard working kid.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
Ah, the fun and gloriously manipulative world of Indian Blood Quantum and Tribal citizenship. Surprisingly, you may actually qualify for Penobscot Tribal citizenship if that was something you wanted to pursue. Seriously, you want that, let me know and I'll help you.
Back up...the point isn't whether or not MB can find scholarship money for him or his children. The point is: why should he (or anyone else) have to go back in their geneology to find .05% Native American ancestry from 150 years ago in order to receive special funding? More importantly, why should race or ethnicity even matter? You're either smart and hard working enough to attend the school, or you're not. You either qualify for financial aid, or you don't. Ethnicity should have nothing to do with it.

And I'll bet those kids also had some pretty good grades. In the Black community, it strikes me that the higher economic class from which a kid comes from, the more likely their parents are to take an interest in their education; thus, you aren't going to have kids who couldn't formulate a proper sentence.
You missed the point entirely: these kids went to school courtesy of scholarships because of the color of their skin, yet their parents were fully capable of paying for the education if they had to. In other words, they weren't the stereotypical poor black families coming from "disadvantaged" inner-city public schools that affirmative action supposedly aims to help. On the other hand, it sounds like MB had to scrape together enough money to barely afford his education, but didn't get aid because he was white.

I'd be interested in what scholarships you can find for Robav.
 

QuagmireMcGuire

Kinder and Gentler
Back up...the point isn't whether or not MB can find scholarship money for him or his children. The point is: why should he (or anyone else) have to go back in their geneology to find .05% Native American ancestry in order to receive special funding? Is this the "level playing field" you were speaking of?

I told MB that I could help him pursue tribal citizenship if he was interested. To many Native descendants that actually means a lot because there are many Americans who claim descent from a tribe but they lack the proper information and documention to be affiliated by the tribe. Being a citizen of a federally recognized tribe means that you hold dual citizenship with the US and your tribe; you qualify for certain federally funded services specifically set aside for Natives and your tribe extends their hand to help one of its own. I presume that MB has finished with his studies so my purposes of helping him wouldn't be so that he could exploit tribal resources; I just have a soft spot for helping people get connected with their respective tribal communities.

You missed the point entirely: these kids went to school courtesy of scholarships because of the color of their skin, yet their parents were fully capable of paying for the education if they had to. In other words, they weren't the stereotypical poor black families coming from "disadvantaged" inner-city public schools that affirmative action supposedly aims to help. On the other hand, it sounds like MB had to scrape together enough money to barely afford his education, but didn't get aid because he was white.

I didn't miss the point. There was a presumption that these kids were only admitted because they were Black; he said they were there on free rides, he didn't seem to acknowledge that they may have gotten these "free rides" because they had worked damn hard to get them. And that is ultimately the problem I have with most people who so vehemently oppose Affirmative Action; it is the presumption that Black/Brown folk get accepted into college or land the job simply because of their skin, no acknowledgment that we worked hard or made sacrifices to get where we got.
 

Spekkio

He bowls overhand.
And that is ultimately the problem I have with most people who so vehemently oppose Affirmative Action; it is the presumption that Black/Brown folk get accepted into college or land the job simply because of their skin, no acknowledgment that we worked hard or made sacrifices to get where we got.
But that's exactly what affirmative action does. It allows people with sub-standard performance to get accepted into a position based upon ethnicity. Now, that person may have worked hard to get the grades/evaluations that he did, but if he's getting the position over someone with better evaluations or grades not only because of ethnicity, but also because the government said they had to, well, there's a problem there.

The reason that so many people have such a presumption about affirmative action giving jobs to minorities is because it does happen. I invite you to visit aamc.org and look at applicant and matriculate statistics, and notice that non-hispanic grades are generally higher than hispanic grades. When I applied, medical schools were taking ~50% of all applicant sub groups. That means that I wasn't competing against all other applicants, I was competing against the white, male applicants. But hey, it could be worse -- I could've been Asian, since they had the highest applicant and matriculant averages at the time I applied.

By diversity, do you mean some students who had no business being there but were let in due to a "sliding scale" for admission?
I was poking fun at the fact that colleges and employers use the word "diversity" as a PC way of saying that they accept/hire minorities. It's bullshit because my 3rd generation hispanic next door neighbor isn't going to be significantly culturally different from me.
 

robav8r

Well-Known Member
None
Contributor
Among the things I learned in my brief stint in academia; there is way more money out there than people realize. It may not always be easy to find, but there are literally mountains of aid out there for a hard working kid.

I appreciate the sentiment. There doesn't seem to be enough hours in the day to "research" all of the "possibilities" wrt educational assistance programs. My son is wanting an ROTC scholarship and is starting to realize that it's a "dog eat dog" world out there when it comes to competition for slots.
 

Random8145

Registered User
Contributor
My mistake on the $250,000 thing. My point though is that people often refer to those tax cuts as "tax cuts for the rich" and $250,000 is not rich. It is a nice income, but not rich. Rich is if you're making $250,000 a month. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but those tax cuts I believe brought in the highest amount of tax revenue in the history of the country, so I do not see how Hillary or Obama claim they can increase those taxes again, and then lower taxes for the middle class. If they increase them, they'll lower tax revenue for the government.

My understanding of taxes is this:

Tax cuts for people taxed at 50% or more: Increases tax revenue for the gov't through economic growth that occurs; such people spend more of their money and sales taxes account for most tax revenue overall, so increased spending increases revenue.

I also know a business owner who was able to hire some additional employees to his business b/c of those tax cuts; thus, when this happens on a national level, they create job growth, which creates more people buying things, and also more tax payers for the gov't, so the gov't is getting more revenue from both sales taxes and income taxes and all those other taxes.

Tax cuts for people taxed under 50%: Decreases tax revenue for the gov't because not enough economic growth can occur to pay for them

Tax increases for 50% or more: Decrease tax revenue b/c economic growth slows

Tax increase for under 50%: Increase tax revenue

Hillary and Obama claim they will lower taxes on the middle-class, but if they get rid of the Bush tax cuts, that alone will decrease tax revenue; if they also lower taxes for the middle-class, they will have to run a rather large deficit as well, because both measures will decrease revenue.

I would imagine that the way to cut taxes for the middle-class is, for example, if when the Bush Administration implemented his tax cuts, when the increased tax revenue started coming in, the gov't kept its spending in check, then reasoned, "Okay, now that we have more revenue, can we decrease taxes on the middle class b/c the economic growth from these tax cuts for the upper-class will offset any middle-class tax revenue decrease..."

Republicans and Democrats usually disagree on how to spend the revenue coming into the government, but one would think they'd be in agreement with the method that pleases people and also brings in more revenue.

Either Hillary and Obama don't know what they're saying, or they are just trying to promote class warfare to get into power.

How is a system which creates an equal playing field an immoral act?

You are confusing equality of outcome with equality of opportunity. You cannot enforce equality. It doesn't work. And also like said, government has no right to tell a business who they can or cannot hire.

Trying to enforce equality only increases inequality, resentment, and prejudice in the long-run; (for example, the white person wonders if their black doctor was really qualified for medical school or if it was just a quota that let them in; the black doctor experiences this and resents it). It can sometimes "fix" things temporarily, but in the long run, it only increases the problem greatly.

It's like a race. Suppose I am in much better physical condition then you. Both you and I can start at the same spot and race, but I outrace you and finish way far ahead.

We both started off equally (equality of opportunity), but the outcome was unequal. To Democrats/liberals, there is something wrong with this. Similarly, if one guy is wealthy and another guy isn't, why this is so doesn't matter. It's "immoral," so they say they will make things "more equal" through "wealth redistribution" (which in fact only increases inequality).

Now let's suppose some legislator comes to the race and says to me, in reference to you, "Alright, this guy is slower than you, so we are going to give him a 20-foot headstart." So you get the 20 foot headstart and we start racing. I am faster than you, but b/c of the headstart, we both cross the finish line at the same time. That is equality of outcome.

To get equality of outcome requires making things unequal from the get-go.

In Europe, they focus on equality of outcome, rather than equality of opportunity, though they love to claim America tolerates "much higher levels of inequality than any other nation." To me, it's that America tolerates much lower levels of entitlement spending then those other nations, and thus actually has much higher levels of equality, equality of opportunity, which allows people to be able to rise from poverty to any level a lot easier here.

Back in the old South, it obviously was tough for blacks and minorities to get jobs and so forth b/c of discrimination, or to get loans to start a business, etc...however they migrated to the North and other areas and began their own black communities, black businesses, etc...you might argue, "Well, legislation should have been temporarily needed to help blacks get jobs or businesses in the South..." but again, how exactly would one "enforce the equality" there? All you could do is make things more UN-equal from the get-go, for example, by creating quotas to hire blacks/give loans, or making standards for hiring minorities or minority loans less than those for whites, etc...it just doesn't work. You could say, "Blacks are more impoverished, so we'll give them each a a "free" governmetn check each month," but this will only subsidize poverty, and is like throwingbread crumbs on a piece of moldy bread.

Society has ways of working these things out itself. And in general, unless you are in an extremist area, a business would be very foolish to discriminate because it would mean lost business and possibly going out of business.
 
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