Romney opts out of Presidental Race

[HueyCobra8151]

Blah, college campuses are the least diverse places I have ever been in my life, "ethnically," socially, and economically.

Glad my tuition pays for an "office of diversity..."

BTW, the people who REALLY get screwed IMO are the poor white kids who go to the inner city schools and grow up in shitty apartments (fwiw I grew up on the same block as the big brick welfare free-housing building), then go to school where they are told they are discriminators and racists by their relatively wealthy liberal elitist professors...

 

[eddie]

it is the presumption that Black/Brown folk get accepted into college or land the job simply because of their skin, no acknowledgment that we worked hard or made sacrifices to get where we got.

But Quagmire, there are underqualified applicants who would not be accepted but for their skin color.

 

[red_ryder]

I didn't miss the point. There was a presumption that these kids were only admitted because they were Black; he said they were there on free rides, he didn't seem to acknowledge that they may have gotten these "free rides" because they had worked damn hard to get them. And that is ultimately the problem I have with most people who so vehemently oppose Affirmative Action; it is the presumption that Black/Brown folk get accepted into college or land the job simply because of their skin, no acknowledgment that we worked hard or made sacrifices to get where we got.

Cool, so they get there on hard work alone. If they do, that negates the need for Affirmative Action.

 

[BourneID]

How did a Romney thrread turn into an Affermative Action Thread?

The government shouldn't tell bussiness how many white/black/brown/yellow/red/male/female people they have to employee, however if the question arises that there are unfair hiring practices; that company better have the paperwork to back up why they have hired this person over the competition for that position.

 

[Brett327]

How did a Romney thrread turn into an Affermative Action Thread?

The government shouldn't tell bussiness how many white/black/brown/yellow/red/male/female people they have to employee, however if the question arises that there are unfair hiring practices; that company better have the paperwork to back up why they have hired this person over the competition for that position.

A firm should be able to hire whomever they want and for whatever reason.

Brett

 

[QuagmireMcGuire]

But Quagmire, there are underqualified applicants who would not be accepted but for their skin color.

But eddie, there are underqualified applicants who would not be accepted but for their athletic superiority but we're fine lowering those elite standards so that those studs can don our school colors.

Additionally, I am aware that there are underqualified applicants that may be accepted into college but don't presume that the only reason that they were accepted was because of their skin color. There are other factors which play into the decision.

I'll confess to an inside knowledge about recruitment and financial aid because I worked as a recruiter for minority students while in law school; I served on our diversity committee and was a representative for the Native students. I even wrote a tuition assistance program for Native students. Not to mention that prior to entering law school, I was a teacher who taught a college preparation course for rez kids. (I was a terrible teacher.)

How Affirmative Action works is that all applicants are thrown into an anonymous pool. Those who don't meet the basic standards are thrown out; those that just barely make the standards are put on a waiting list; those that exceed the standards are accepted. Most people fall into the middle category and this is when they look at the whole person. Up until this point, the only thing known about the person is their file number, their grades, and ACT score. Once in committee, you read their personal statement and you look at how this person will add to a well-rounded classroom discussion. You do not want your classroom to be filled with people who come from the same ethnic background, same gender, same religion, or same socioeconomic background because you are sending out individuals who will be working for a diverse population; you want your classroom to, as realistically as possible, reflect the greater population.

When a person's race, gender, rural background, or religion comes into the decision, it is used as an edge between equally competitive people. It is a myth to believe that underqualified applicants are being accepted solely based upon their skin.

Anyway, y'all have a good weekend. I'm off to geocache.

 

[Spekkio]

But eddie, there are underqualified applicants who would not be accepted but for their athletic superiority but we're fine lowering those elite standards so that those studs can don our school colors.

Ivy league schools look for people with exceptional talent. This talent can come in the form of being a math whiz, a musical genious, or the next Barry Bonds (sans steroids).

I fail to see how being white/black/yellow/green/blue skinned fits that criteria.

 

[eddie]

It is a myth to believe that underqualified applicants are being accepted solely based upon their skin.

No, it is not always a myth, although I wish I could agree with you. It's probably the rare exception.

But you are correct; academic institutions make all kinds of allowances and exceptions for all kinds of folks.

I'll be straight. I don't know how I feel about all of this. On the one hand, I like the "go by the stats" approach. Qualified is qualified and that's it. On the other, this is higher education we're talking about; learning how to think is just as important as the more intricate skill set you are acquiring. Diversity is probably good for that. (Of course, many have argued here that Affirmative Action does not actually make student populations more diverse).

But really, I think I don't know how I feel about this because I'm resigned to it's reality in the status quo and therefore don't care. It's like taxes; they are inevitable. I'm going to fight battles I can a) win, and b) am motivated by and knowledgeable in so my I can maximize the usefullness of my short lifespan.

And then you realize we're talking about higher education, which is not compulsory, which opens up all sorts of night crawler cans. Who is owed what or what not by the state or private institutions; very messy ideologically.

My mindset: fix public education, and this argument becomes a lot less heated and mostly irrelevant.

 

[BourneID]

You do not want your classroom to be filled with people who come from the same ethnic background, same gender, same religion, or same socioeconomic background because you are sending out individuals who will be working for a diverse population; you want your classroom to, as realistically as possible, reflect the greater population.

When a person's race, gender, rural background, or religion comes into the decision, it is used as an edge between equally competitive people. It is a myth to believe that underqualified applicants are being accepted solely based upon their skin.

Anyway, y'all have a good weekend. I'm off to geocache.

First I have to comment on your little Hobby, HOLY DORKNESS!

Secondly, you statement describes Diversity moreso than a reason for Affirmative Action.

 

[HH-60H]

The First Catholic Slovak Ladies Association

http://fcsla.org/scholarship.shtml

 

[Rasczak]

You want money for school? Get loans or work for it.
Not happy about it? get off your duff and do something to fix it instead of bitching.

..words....

 

[whitesoxnation]

I didn't miss the point. There was a presumption that these kids were only admitted because they were Black; he said they were there on free rides, he didn't seem to acknowledge that they may have gotten these "free rides" because they had worked damn hard to get them.

It is a myth to believe that underqualified applicants are being accepted solely based upon their skin.

Dude just stop talking. One of my old roommates was a minority and had a near if not full ride. He didn't do sheeeit in HS. Kicked out after his first year. Lost all his financial $$.

I see all kinds of bullshit all the time. Kids getting breaks from profs because they're from wherever and cant speak english well or the prof is a sympathetic moron. University just wants to put a checkmark in a box on some diversity report or some retarded shit. Fuck that.

Oh yeah.. then I get put in a group with these mofos. They have no idea of what the standard is and their work SUCKS. I end up doing EVERYTHING to compensate for them then get my ass kicked on "peer evals" because I'm an asshole but I just did A+ quality work for them when they just want to hand in a wikipedia printout... BULLLLLLLLLLLSHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

 

[HueyCobra8151]

You do not want your classroom to be filled with people who come from the same ethnic background, same gender, same religion, or same socioeconomic background because you are sending out individuals who will be working for a diverse population; you want your classroom to, as realistically as possible, reflect the greater population.

LOL...good one.

Yeah, my diverse campus (which I PAY to increase the diversity of my "learning experience") really enhances my thought process. That 1.6% black population really has made a difference in my "diversity [insert buzzword]."

Because white, black, hispanic, and asian people are so irreconcilably different, that we all need special training and consideration in order to understand someone of *gasp* a different shade of skin color. Or maybe diversity of thought stretches a little beyond that...

Yeah, I sure am glad I went to college, because it is inconceivable that I could possibly collaborate in a diverse group of people otherwise...

 

[QuagmireMcGuire]

HAHA!! Comments about my new hobby. Comments about the "myth". But not a single comment on the fact that collegiate sports is in fact an Affirmative Action plan. And that is exactly why it was created. It was created to give Black athletes (as it was geared towards back then) an opportunity to compete in athletics because it was believed they were incapable of competing academically.

Huey, I don't know where you attend college but I imagine you either attend college in a state with a very small Black population or you attend a private institution. Either way, you are right; having a 1.6% Black student population is ridiculous. There are differences amongst the ethnic communities; we have different values, different social norms, and even different standards of beauty. Having a diverse student population opens many previously sheltered 18 year olds to the fact that not all Americans share the same culture, history, background, or language.

Whitesox, I am not a dude. Second, it seems the system eventually caught up with your roommate and he was kicked out. So, what is the problem? Resources that had previously been reserved for him have now gone to another student who may actually use them to their benefit. Seriously, if you have a problem with a specific student then you need to address that specific student and don't let any bitterness simmer to an absurd level.

All this venting about how these underqualified students don't belong is probably well intentioned on your part but it won't do anything to dissuade me. The fact remains that there are disparities between high schools and the level of education afforded to their students; now with the introduction of "No Child Left Behind", schools are responsible for teaching kids to pass a test instead of focusing upon building a well-rounded individual. If you took the brightest student from the worst school in Seattle, they would not be able to compete at the best school in Kirkland. Not to mention, that if that brightest student had attending a high school which had been predominately Black and later transfered to a school that was predominately White, they find themselves in a position in which they feel sheltered and misunderstood. This situation would happen if the reverse took place.

 

[HueyCobra8151]

Here's the rub though Quagmire: I am a white guy, but your story is pretty similar to mine. Low income single parent household, lived in 6 different places growing up (all in crappy neighborhoods), went to inner city school w/ the highest drop out rate and all that other stuff.

Except no-one gave me a helping hand - after all, I'm an over privileged white guy.

And you never answered what sort of diversity affirmative action includes? I would bet an upper-class white student has much more in common w/ another upper-class black student than another lower-class white student.