Scooters Forever (A-4 Skyhawk Tribute Thread)

[HeyJoe]

Origin of RAGs

Crap! I turned my computer on, went and got a beer, sat down to watch the post over there this evening, and it’s over. That guy, Ben must have thrown in the towel. It was really getting entertaining. Ah well….



BTW, HJ, my old squadron VA-44, and our sister squadrons, that were also RAG's, used AD as tailcodes. We were all in CAW 4. Is AD still CAW 4?

Steve

CAW 4! You're dating yourself. The term "RAG" was actually used for Replacement Air Groups (RCVG) that were established on the East Coast (HQ at Cecil under Capt Dose in 1958) and West Coast as RCVG-12). As you observed, the East Coast used AD and West Coast used NJ. Although the West Coast had several squadrons with 12x designations (VF-121, VA-122, VF-124, VA-125, VA-126 and VA-128), the East transitioned existing fleet squadrons into training roles pretty much leaving their designations intact:

VA-42 (Skyraider)
VF-21 (Tiger, Cougar, Trojan, Shooting Star) Note: absorbed FAWTUL Det B
VA-44 (Skyhawk, Cougar, Trojan, Shooting Star)
VF-101 (Skyray, Demon and Skyknight) Note: absorbed VF-171 assets
VF-174 (Crusader) absorbed personnel of VA-45

VF-21 later became VA-43 and was a true sister squadron of VA-44. Later, VA-45 picked a similar Jet refresher/transition/instrument training role at NAS Key West in 1963

The mid to late 50s was a time when mishap rates were growing at an alrmingly rate so the implementation of the "RAG" concept coincided with a number of measures like NATOPS and angled decks under effort led by Rear Admiral Flatley at the Safety Center who was tasked by VCNo to do a comprehensive study on aviation losses and make recommendations to turn it around.

VA-44 Hornets during A4D Skyhawk era

So, no (to answer your question), since CAW-4 doesn't exist any longer, AD is used for shore-based fleet training. The RCVG billet went away later when Master Jet Bases got their own Flag Officers that "owned" the remaining squadrons (Oceana had TACWINGSLANT, Whidbey, Miramar and Lemoore all got Flag Officers followed much later by Cecil in 1987). In downsizing move post Desert Storm, the flag officer level type wings were eventually eliminated and 0-6 level Commodores left to "govern" their respective Type Wings. At Oceana, VFA-106 uses AD as does the Weapons School and so did VF-101, VF-43 and VA-42 during their heyday (1970s through 1990s)

VF-43 in 1992 just before disestablishment

HJ Photo

Note: so use of "RAG" for the Fleet Readiness* Squadrons (FRS) is an affectionate nick name like calling the Air Wing Commander "CAG" even though "Air Group" as a name is no longer used ("CAW" just doesn't sound right).

*Some people use "Replacement" in lieu of Readiness. Even official Navy documents use both terms almost interchangeably

 

[Mumbles]

^Great pic Joe!

 

[HeyJoe]

^Great pic Joe!

I seem to recall your dad was one of the dual-qualled RAG instructors at VF-101 who also got to fly VF-43 "Scooters" as part of the coveted "Tactics Flying Club" to teach replacements finer art of DACT (thanks in large part to your grandfather's legacy).

The dimunitive, but deadly Scooter lineup at VF-43 in 1992

[/IMG]

HJ Photo

A handful of VF-101 Instructors were DACT Instructors and flew VF-43 (as well as VF-45 Skyhawks (when Dets operated out of Key West).

 

[ea6bflyr]

I like how the jet have their own callsigns! Any of them named Christine?

-ea6bflyr

 

[HeyJoe]

"Christine"

That was reserved for a certain Tomcat

 

[Cron]

That was reserved for a certain Tomcat

I'm assuming the name was a Stephen King reference? I wonder if the jet played 70's disco when you sat in it...the horror.

 

[phrogpilot73]

That was reserved for a certain Tomcat

31 years?!? Youngin'...

 

[bunk22]

I

[/IMG]

Great photo :icon_smil

 

[brownshoe]

CAW 4! You're dating yourself. The term "RAG" was actually used for Replacement Air Groups (RCVG) that were established on the East Coast (HQ at Cecil under Capt Dose in 1958) and West Coast as RCVG-12). As you observed, the East Coast used AD and West Coast used NJ. Although the West Coast had several squadrons with 12x designations (VF-121, VA-122, VF-124, VA-125, VA-126 and VA-128), the East transitioned existing fleet squadrons into training roles pretty much leaving their designations intact:

VA-42 (Skyraider)
VF-21 (Tiger, Cougar, Trojan, Shooting Star) Note: absorbed FAWTUL Det B
VA-44 (Skyhawk, Cougar, Trojan, Shooting Star)
VF-101 (Skyray, Demon and Skyknight) Note: absorbed VF-171 assets
VF-174 (Crusader) absorbed personnel of VA-45

VF-21 later became VA-43 and was a true sister squadron of VA-44. Later, VA-45 picked a similar Jet refresher/transition/instrument training role at NAS Key West in 1963

The mid to late 50s was a time when mishap rates were growing at an alrmingly rate so the implementation of the "RAG" concept coincided with a number of measures like NATOPS and angled decks under effort led by Rear Admiral Flatley at the Safety Center who was tasked by VCNo to do a comprehensive study on aviation losses and make recommendations to turn it around.

So, no (to answer your question), since CAW-4 doesn't exist any longer, AD is used for shore-based fleet training. The RCVG billet went away later when Master Jet Bases got their own Flag Officers that "owned" the remaining squadrons (Oceana had TACWINGSLANT, Whidbey, Miramar and Lemoore all got Flag Officers followed much later by Cecil in 1987). In downsizing move post Desert Storm, the flag officer level type wings were eventually eliminated and 0-6 level Commodores left to "govern" their respective Type Wings. At Oceana, VFA-106 uses AD as does the Weapons School and so did VF-101, VF-43 and VA-42 during their heyday (1970s through 1990s)

Note: so use of "RAG" for the Fleet Readiness* Squadrons (FRS) is an affectionate nick name like calling the Air Wing Commander "CAG" even though "Air Group" as a name is no longer used ("CAW" just doesn't sound right).

*Some people use "Replacement" in lieu of Readiness. Even official Navy documents use both terms almost interchangeably

Wow! HJ, thanks for all of the info! You went to a great deal of trouble for me and it’s appreciated. And yes, you’re right I have dated myself, I’ll be 62 in January. But then most here already knew that I’m an old fart.

VF-174 was next door to us on the flight line, and shared our hangar. Man, I loved those F-8’s! What a plane that was! VF-174 became, VA-174 when they received the new A-7 Corsair, and became the A-7 RAG at Cecil.

I’d posted this picture before, it was taken by an old shipmate, and sent to me. It’s a photo of the VA-174 line looking toward hangar 67 at Cecil. AO’s are loading some fun stuff.

Again, HJ, thanks for the info, and great pictures as always.

Steve

 

[HeyJoe]

Wow! HJ, thanks for all of the info! You went to a great deal of trouble for me and it’s appreciated. And yes, you’re right I have dated myself, I’ll be 62 in January. But then most here already knew that I’m an old fart.

VF-174 was next door to us on the flight line, and shared our hangar. Man, I loved those F-8’s! What a plane that was! VF-174 became, VA-174 when they received the new A-7 Corsair, and became the A-7 RAG at Cecil.

I’d posted this picture before, it was taken by an old shipmate, and sent to me. It’s a photo of the VA-174 line looking toward hangar 67 at Cecil. AO’s are loading some fun stuff.

Again, HJ, thanks for the info, and great pictures as always.

Steve

Your more than welcome. The origins of the Navy Adversary program and transition of so-called "Instrument RAG"s into dedicated Adversary units as well as establishment/equippage of other Dets/Units with A-4 Adversaries (like the one A4s flew with) is one of my favorite topics. I am glad I was around during the heyday of the A-4 Adversaries and got to document several units before the "Dark Ages" came in the mid-nineties.

Gone, but not forgotten...VF-126 Bandits at Miramar in 1992

TOPGUN Scooter sat Nellis AFB during Weapons School Exchange meeting

HJ Photos

 

[A4sForever]

....The origins of the Navy Adversary program and transition of so-called "Instrument RAG"s into dedicated Adversary units as well as establishment/equippage of other Dets/Units with A-4 Adversaries (like the one A4s flew with) is one of my favorite topics....Gone, but not forgotten...VF-126 Bandits at Miramar in 1992

Roger that: when I originally went through VF-126, it was ONLY to get the SID SEAWOLF and GCA's @ San Clemente "X" in the box prior to going to the RAG ... and then years later, I worked w/ 'em when we all joined up and did BIG Adversary Dets @ Tyndall, Nellis, and of course -- Nellis Red Flag(s) ...

My, my ... going from doin' a YOKE Pattern under the bag to yankin' & bankin', scootin' & shootin' and BEING SOMEBODY all in one Navy lifetime .... .... how times change.

We basically "borrowed" their patch for the NAS DALLAS Adversary version:

 

[brownshoe]

The A-4 was a great little plane with a lifespan that just wouldn't die. Oily right wing anyone?

Steve

 

[brownshoe]

Scooters Forever (A-4 Skyhawk Tribute Thread)

Okay... Which one of you mod's did this?

Steve

 

[A4sForever]

Scooters Forever (A-4 Skyhawk Tribute Thread)

Okay... Which one of you mod's did this?

Steve

I was goin' to as it was gettin' WAY "too good" for the other thread ... gee, what a surprise, yes?? But HeyJoe beat me to the draw ... damn NFO's ... they always WERE better at the office stuff ..

 

[brownshoe]

Okay, here's a few photos from the past. My buddy Walt smoking in the pits. (I'm sure that's not allowed today.) And an A-4 sitting on the flight line.

Steve