SECNAV to Implement Sweeping Changes

[Brett327]

So, in your view, the whole "officer first, aviator second" mantra that we're all exposed to even before commissioning is just bullshit? Seems to me that concept has been the cornerstone of naval service from the beginning. Obviously, opinions vary.

 

[jtmedli]

So, in your view, the whole "officer first, aviator second" mantra that we're all exposed to even before commissioning is just bullshit? Seems to me that concept has been the cornerstone of naval service from the beginning. Obviously, opinions vary.

I wouldn't say it's bullshit by any means but, at some point, it started becoming something like "officer first, shame on you for wanting to fly and not wanting to drive a boat".

 

[Brett327]

I wouldn't say it's bullshit by any means but, at some point, it started becoming something like "officer first, shame on you for wanting to fly and not wanting to drive a boat".

I disagree with that characterization, but you and I have very different outlooks. There are also some community differences in play here, and I've noticed that the VP and Helo folks do seem to express what you're talking about a lot more than some others.

 

[jollygreen07]

I've noticed that the VP and Helo folks do seem to express what you're talking about a lot more than some others.

Probably because we are the ones doing the much-hated boat jobs.

 

[Brett327]

Probably because we are the ones doing the much-hated boat jobs.

This goes well beyond any single disassociated tour though. I know a shooter tour isn't something an officer recruiter is going to discuss with a potential applicant, but some of you are acting as though Big Navy pulled a bait and switch. Is that really how some of you feel? For the ones lamenting the "much-hated boat jobs," was your expectation really that you'd get flying tour after flying tour after flying tour until you completed your MSR or retired? I'm just trying to explore where the expectations gap is for some of you.

 

[jollygreen07]

This goes well beyond any single disassociated tour though. I know a shooter tour isn't something an officer recruiter is going to discuss with a potential applicant, but some of you are acting as though Big Navy pulled a bait and switch. Is that really how some of you feel? For the ones lamenting the "much-hated boat jobs," was your expectation really that you'd get flying tour after flying tour after flying tour until you completed your MSR or retired? I'm just trying to explore where the expectations gap is for some of you.

Honestly? When I joined and got a pilot slot I thought I'd spend the entire time, you know, flying. I don't have any executive level experience managing manpower or anything, but I cannot wrap my mind around an organization spending millions of dollars to train a person to fly airplanes and then deciding right at the point when they are likely the most proficient in an aircraft that they are going to be (post production tour) putting them on a boat to build their "officership".

I'm just a soon to be FOS'd O-3, so my opinion isn't worth the bytes it's "printed" on, but I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

 

[Brett327]

That's a good data point - thanks.

 

[Python]

So, in your view, the whole "officer first, aviator second" mantra that we're all exposed to even before commissioning is just bullshit? Seems to me that concept has been the cornerstone of naval service from the beginning. Obviously, opinions vary.

Idk if I'd call it bullshit or not, but I joined to fly. Yes, I'm patriotic and believe in what I do, but I wanted to fly fast jets dynamically and joined the Navy to do it. I didn't sign up to write awards or Evals, but I DO understand that it comes with the territory. I know many many, many, many people in my generation that share that philosophy.

The problem arises when people say shame on you for NOT getting satisfaction from awards and Evals (NKO, PME, Joint-whatever, etc.). You can tell me that I have to do it to get promoted, but nobody should think less of me for not getting satisfaction from doing it. Usually that criticism is covered by the blanket statement "officer first, aviator second." I know that's how the institution works, but that's not why I signed up originally and I 100% get my satisfaction from the flying and not the other stuff. And you know what, NOBODY should think there's anything wrong with that.

I know it's just my opinion and your views are different, and I'll respect that. Just realize my views are not alone and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Recovering LSO]

I know that's how the institution works, but that's not why I signed up originally and I 100% get my satisfaction from the flying and not the other stuff. And you know what, NOBODY should think there's anything wrong with that.

Except maybe the Sailors who keep your jet in the air...

 

[Python]

Except maybe the Sailors who keep your jet in the air...

I'm not saying I don't appreciate them (I do, a lot. And take care of them). And I'm not saying I don't do my job to the best of my ability. I'm speaking purely of personal satisfaction and motivations.

 

[IRfly]

What bothers me about this is the bigger problem here. For some extremely strange reason, in naval aviation it's become shameful and 'bad for your career' if you actually enjoy flying and want to do it on a regular basis. Think about it. Every time some noob comes in here and says he just wants to fly we shit all over him like there's something wrong with doing what you love.

OR...We help the 24-year-old frat boy in a flightsuit understand that the Navy and the world don't exist for the purpose of allowing him to do what he loves. The ones that can grow the f*ck up we like to keep around. The ones who can't, well, to borrow a phrase from the book "Disrupted:" "We help them understand that they'll be happier somewhere else."

Best critique of the system is by Wink--when people do exactly what the Navy asks and then get cut loose, it's BS. Might as well call it fusion, though, because it's the process that creates stars...

Edit: In response to Python: if you do your job wrt your ground responsibilities and do it well, then I agree that it shouldn't matter what you think. But, having been in the situation where I have to do something not fun and lead others to accomplish the not-fun thing, I know that hearing about how little satisfaction people derive from their work gets old after a while.

 

[Brett327]

I'm not saying I don't appreciate them (I do, a lot. And take care of them). And I'm not saying I don't do my job to the best of my ability. I'm speaking purely of personal satisfaction and motivations.

So what's a fair balance between your desire to have a multi-million dollar aircraft available to you (so you can maximize your personal satisfaction) and maintaining the health of the institution which provides it? I think this is the crux of the matter at hand.

 

[rotorhead1871]

Army makes it work just fine....

its a manpower issue, nothing more. they want to get flexible enough ..with options..to fill the billets, BTW...active navy guys dont design radars..at least for aircraft, Raytheon does.

 

[IKE]

Honestly? When I joined and got a pilot slot I thought I'd spend the entire time, you know, flying.

Now I see the skew in my perspective. I started life as an enlisted shoe (ET), which meant:
a) just about anything post-commission was a QOL, control-my-own-fate improvement, and
b) I knew (somewhat) the aviator career path, because I worked on an LHD with air boss, mini boss, safety, etc.

I can see how a dude who goes to Embry Riddle, flies while doing undergrad, then commissions via OCS might have vastly different expectations.

 

[Brett327]

BTW...active navy guys dont design radars.

But active duty Navy guys do conduct the DT and OT on those radars to make sure Raytheon is giving the end user in the fleet a radar he or she can use.