Ship Photo of the Day

[GroundPounder]

True, but I think people forget just how vicious WWII was - worse than WWI in terms of “hating the enemy.” But I fear this is what the next major war will be like and the nail biting “law of warfare” types will be shoved into the back seat.

My granddaddy was a WW II Naval aviator, and was as polite and tolerant a person as anyone born in 1917 could ever be. He went out of his way to treat everyone properly and received some flack for being opened minded during the Civil Rights era.

All that being said, he went to his grave with whatever emotion is just shy of hatred ( like maybe .02% ) for the Japanese. He was temporarily on Guadalcanal just after the fighting, and from that day forward he had no love for anything Japanese. He didn't talk about the war much, but Guadalcanal was off limits. His knowledge was from being there after the majority of the fighting, not as a participant.

 

[Randy Daytona]

Sviatoi Vladimir was a 66 gun frigate in the Russian Imperial Navy. A Third Rate, 3 decker - she measured roughly 155 ft long and had a beam of 41 ft. Armament was a combination of 30 pounders and 12 pounders. During the Russo-Turkish War of 1787-1792 (one of many, many wars between the Russians and the Turks https://www.realclearhistory.com/articles/2018/06/14/10_most_important_russo-turkish_wars_323.html ), she was the flagship of Catherine the Great for the actions around the Liman Estuary where the Dnieper River empties into the Black Sea.

The Russians won both battles, stunning one sided victories under the command of Admiral John Paul Jones. (He was recommended to Catherine the Great by Thomas Jefferson.) Before the battle, he got into a rowboat and personally scouted the Ottoman fleet under the cover of darkness, Jones also had to lighten his flagship by offloading a majority of the guns due to the shallowness of the water. It is interesting to speculate that if he had been given more authority, if the Russians would have continued south and taken Constantinople - and how that would have affected world affairs.

As a side note, Admiral Jones retired in Paris. He passed away in 1792 and was buried in the Saint Louis Cemetery in Paris - unfortunately, his exact grave was lost. At the end of the 1800's, a 6 year effort to find John Paul Jones was undertaken by the US Ambassador to France Horace Porter. He was finally found and returned to the US aboard the armored cruiser USS Brooklyn (CA-3), with the final escort being a fleet of 7 battleships. He was laid to rest at the US Naval Academy in 1906 with a speech by President Teddy Roosevelt.

Good article from USNI

https://www.usni.org/magazines/naval-history-magazine/2006/april/john-paul-jones-makes-admiral

Sviatoi Vladimir (For comparison, USS Constitution is 175 ft long and 43 ft wide.)



USS Brooklyn CA-3

 

[Randy Daytona]

True, but I think people forget just how vicious WWII was - worse than WWI in terms of “hating the enemy.” But I fear this is what the next major war will be like and the nail biting “law of warfare” types will be shoved into the back seat.

An example of that is Operation Vegetarian - I had never heard of this until a few months ago.

Operation Vegetarian was an unused British biowarfare military operation plan developed from 1942 to 1944 during World War II. The plan consisted of disseminating linseed press cakes infected with anthrax spores into the countryside of Nazi Germany.[1] These cakes would have been eaten by the cattle, which would then be consumed by the human population, leading to widespread death and disruption.[2][3] Furthermore, it would have wiped out the majority of Germany's cattle, creating a massive food shortage for the rest of the population that remained uninfected. Preparations were not complete until early 1944, when the plan was abandoned due to Operation Overlord; the linseed cakes were destroyed via incinerators in 1945.[4][5]

Operation Vegetarian - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Britain's mysterious WW2 'island of death'

In the 1960s, the BBC set out to investigate local reports of secret, shocking World War Two experiments on a remote island off the coast of Scotland.

www.bbc.com

 

[Griz882]

An example of that is Operation Vegetarian - I had never heard of this until a few months ago.

Operation Vegetarian was an unused British biowarfare military operation plan developed from 1942 to 1944 during World War II. The plan consisted of disseminating linseed press cakes infected with anthrax spores into the countryside of Nazi Germany.[1] These cakes would have been eaten by the cattle, which would then be consumed by the human population, leading to widespread death and disruption.[2][3] Furthermore, it would have wiped out the majority of Germany's cattle, creating a massive food shortage for the rest of the population that remained uninfected. Preparations were not complete until early 1944, when the plan was abandoned due to Operation Overlord; the linseed cakes were destroyed via incinerators in 1945.[4][5]

Operation Vegetarian - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Britain's mysterious WW2 'island of death'

In the 1960s, the BBC set out to investigate local reports of secret, shocking World War Two experiments on a remote island off the coast of Scotland.

www.bbc.com

You’ve found a good topic there. I haven’t heard it either.

 

[JTS11]

An example of that is Operation Vegetarian - I had never heard of this until a few months ago.

Operation Vegetarian was an unused British biowarfare military operation plan developed from 1942 to 1944 during World War II. The plan consisted of disseminating linseed press cakes infected with anthrax spores into the countryside of Nazi Germany.[1] These cakes would have been eaten by the cattle, which would then be consumed by the human population, leading to widespread death and disruption.[2][3] Furthermore, it would have wiped out the majority of Germany's cattle, creating a massive food shortage for the rest of the population that remained uninfected. Preparations were not complete until early 1944, when the plan was abandoned due to Operation Overlord; the linseed cakes were destroyed via incinerators in 1945.[4][5]

Operation Vegetarian - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Britain's mysterious WW2 'island of death'

In the 1960s, the BBC set out to investigate local reports of secret, shocking World War Two experiments on a remote island off the coast of Scotland.

www.bbc.com

Not really subtle with their operation naming game, I see.

 

[Llarry]

My granddaddy was a WW II Naval aviator, and was as polite and tolerant a person as anyone born in 1917 could ever be. He went out of his way to treat everyone properly and received some flack for being opened minded during the Civil Rights era.

All that being said, he went to his grave with whatever emotion is just shy of hatred ( like maybe .02% ) for the Japanese. He was temporarily on Guadalcanal just after the fighting, and from that day forward he had no love for anything Japanese. He didn't talk about the war much, but Guadalcanal was off limits. His knowledge was from being there after the majority of the fighting, not as a participant.

My Dad was slightly younger but saw combat in 1944 as an F6F Hellcat pilot. He published some recollections late in life and stated that when he returned to Japan (as ship's company on a carrier) in 1955 he had some trepidation but quickly grew to appreciate the order of Japanese society and the courtesy of the people.

I don't know how many Aussies we have on AW but my sense is that they are less forgiving of the Japanese people.

 

[Randy Daytona]

IJN Tone was the lead ship of the last class of Imperial Japan's heavy cruisers that were completed. Commissioned on 20 Nov 1938, she fought in most Pacific battles from Pearl Harbor to the end of the war, being sunk on 24 Jul 1945. Interesting design, specific to the doctrine of Japan's Navy. Tone has 4 dual 8" turrets forward, the theory of which it was better to have more turrets and sustain damage while fighting outnumbered. Also, with the idea of being outnumbered in mind, Japanese cruisers carried a heavy torpedo load, 12 Long Lances can ruin anybody's day (although it does leave the ship susceptible of being hit and said torpedoes detonating...)

Finally, notice the seaplanes aft: Japanese doctrine was for the aircraft carriers to carry the maximum number of attack aircraft and fighters leaving reconnaissance to the floatplanes of battleships and cruisers. It was Tone's floatplane that discovered the American fleet at Midway, but was late in reporting the information to Admiral Naguma with devastating (in the form of Devastators) consequences.

Length: 620 ft 5 in, Beam: 63 ft, 8" Displacement: 15,200 tons at full load
Powerplant: 8 boilers gave 152,000 SHP to 4 screws for a maximum of 35 knots.
Armament: 8 (4x2) 8"/50 cal Type 3's throwing 278 lb shells to 19 miles.
Secondaries: 8 5" guns, multiple 25 mm autocannons
Torpedoes: 12 x 24" Long Lance




Japanese heavy cruiser Tone anchored in Hashirajima shortly before the battle of Midway, taken from the battleship Hiei. The destroyer Maikaze is seen behind Tone to the right.


Sister ship IJN Chikuma

 

[GroundPounder]

My Dad was slightly younger but saw combat in 1944 as an F6F Hellcat pilot. He published some recollections late in life and stated that when he returned to Japan (as ship's company on a carrier) in 1955 he had some trepidation but quickly grew to appreciate the order of Japanese society and the courtesy of the people.

I don't know how many Aussies we have on AW but my sense is that they are less forgiving of the Japanese people.

That's what he was, a Hellcat pilot. He was awarded the Navy Cross as well. Do you know which carrier your dad was on?

 

[hlg6016]

My Dad was slightly younger but saw combat in 1944 as an F6F Hellcat pilot. He published some recollections late in life and stated that when he returned to Japan (as ship's company on a carrier) in 1955 he had some trepidation but quickly grew to appreciate the order of Japanese society and the courtesy of the people.

I don't know how many Aussies we have on AW but my sense is that they are less forgiving of the Japanese people.

I can remember being on a VIP trip in the 80's when we were advised to switch out our name tags and patches to regulation so not to offend anyone with the Rising Sun. Koreans definitely did not want to see it and I did not want to piss off my future FIL by wearing it in the PI.

 

[Randy Daytona]

In light of the current controversy over the renaming of the submarine HMS Agincourt to HMS Achilles, thought it would be good to take another look at the last HMS Agincourt, the only battleship to have 7 main gun turrets and consequently the most main guns: 14 (7x2) 12"/45 caliber firing 850 lb shells to 18,800 yards.

Originally ordered by Brazil, they were unable to afford it. The Ottoman Empire stepped in to purchase the ship but the timing was just before the outbreak of WW1 - the British Admiralty seized the ship and put it into use, one of the very few 12" main gun ships.


Agincourt in 1918



Both of the seized Ottoman ships in 1918: Agincourt (foreground) with Erin

 

[Randy Daytona]

As a follow on to the above post, HMS Achilles, or as I learned HMNZS Achilles - a Leander class light cruiser. Achilles was the first Royal Navy cruiser to have fire control radar. Commissioned on 10 Oct 1933, she was most famous for her engagement at the River Platte where she, along with the HMS Ajax and HMS Exeter chased the German pocket battleship Graf Spee into port. The German ship, fearing she was greatly outnumbered, scuttled herself instead of returning to engage. After the war, she was sold to India, where she stayed until being scrapped in 1978.

Length: 555 ft, 5in, Beam: 56 ft, Displacement: 9,740 tons at full load
Powerplant: 6 Yarrow boilers fed 4 Parsons turbines generating 72,000 SHP through 4 screws which gave 32.5 knots
Main Armament: 8 (4x2) 6"/50 caliber Mk XXIII throwing a 112 lb shell to 25,480 yards.
Secondaries: 4 (4x1) 4", multiple .50 cal machine guns, 8 21" torpedo tubes.


Achilles as seen from Ajax at the Battle of the River Plate

 

[Llarry]

That's what he was, a Hellcat pilot. He was awarded the Navy Cross as well. Do you know which carrier your dad was on?

Yorktown briefly in early '44, then Lexington just after the Marianas Turkey Shoot.

 

[Randy Daytona]

With the Iranian Navy's IRIS Shahid Bagheri in the news (a cargo ship converted to an aircraft / drone carrier), thought I would go back and look at how the US Navy got its start.

USS Langley (CV-1) was a converted Proteus class collier. Originally named Jupiter, she was commissioned 7 Apr 1913. She was decommissioned in 1920 and after conversion, recommissioned as USS Langley. A few unique features: Langley was also the Navy's first ship with turbo-electric drive, Langley also had a pigeon house on the stern where she kept carrier pigeons for messaging. In 1937, she was converted again, this time into a seaplane tender.

On 27 Feb 1942, she was attacked by 16 Japanese "Betty" bombers, the resulting damage being enough that the Langley was scuttled and many taken aboard the oiler USS Pecos. Unfortunately, the Pecos was later sunk before the survivors were able to return.

As a side note, Jupiter's sister ship colliers were the Cyclops which disappeared without a trace in WW1 as well as the Proteus and Neptune, both of which disappeared without a trace in WW2.


USS Jupiter before conversion to an aircraft carrier at Mare Island 16 Oct 1913.


USS Langley (CV-1) underway in June 1927


Langley at Puget Sound Navy Yard, immediately opposite Saratoga (with black stripe on funnel) and Lexington in 1929



Langley after conversion to a seaplane tender, 1937


Stern view of the Langley

Vought VE-7 on the flight deck of the USS Langley (CV-1)​