Ship Photo of the Day

[Griz882]

China is apparently building a “drone” only aircraft carrier. The article also notes that other nations are looking into doing the same.

China Builds World's First Dedicated Drone Carrier - Naval News

China has built the world's first dedicated drone carrier. The ship has not been reported however and many of the circumstances surrounding it remain a mystery.

www.navalnews.com

 

[Notanaviator]

GAO: USS Constellation frigate construction “at a standstill”

The build of the first-in-class of the Constellation-class guided missile frigates is "at a standstill" according to the US GAO.

www.naval-technology.com

https://news.usni.org/2024/05/29/constellation-frigate-unplanned-weight-growth-could-limit-service-life-says-gao

Here's a pic of the Constellation class frigate currently going through a Pentagon Wars-esque process of iterating until the end result is way too expensive and doesn't do the things it was originally meant to do. Honestly amazing if the articles are accurate that the platform we planned to acquire because it was an inexpensive preexisting design then gets entirely blown up by differing requirements that obviate the utility in going off the shelf to begin with... oh and the lead ship has been under construction for a couple years already while they sort all that out. It's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see how it works out for them!

 

[Flash]

Here's a pic of the Constellation class frigate currently going through a Pentagon Wars-esque process of iterating until the end result is way too expensive and doesn't do the things it was originally meant to do. Honestly amazing if the articles are accurate that the platform we planned to acquire because it was an inexpensive preexisting design then gets entirely blown up by differing requirements that obviate the utility in going off the shelf to begin with... oh and the lead ship has been under construction for a couple years already while they sort all that out. It's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see how it works out for them!

While the news isn't great it is far too early to be declaring the program a failure of a white elephant anytime soon.

Ironically the big subject of 'The Pentagon Wars', the M2/3/6 Bradley, has turned out to be a pretty good armored fighting vehicle that has repeatedly proven itself in combat. That along with other sometimes maligned weapon systems to include the Tomahawk, F-117, Stinger, AEGIS and even M-16 have turned out to be excellent weapon systems even after sometimes troubled starts and/or development issues. That said there are some that do turn out to be utter disasters...cough LCS cough...but fortunately those are a lot less common than the success stories for us.

Another thing to keep in mind, we are unusually open as a country about these sorts of issues. Even some of our allies keep these sorts of things under wraps, for good and bad reasons. Our enemies, even more so. A good example, you don't hear much about the incomparable awesomeness of the Su-57 Felon nowadays do you?

 

[Notanaviator]

I think all that is fair, of course, and that's a lot more of a level-headed take. Would tack on to that the fact that many of the challenges we have with acquisitions are not the fault of the services per se, but challenges in working in tandem with Congressional appropriations processes that are... not ideal.

 

[GroundPounder]

While the news isn't great it is far too early to be declaring the program a failure of a white elephant anytime soon.

Ironically the big subject of 'The Pentagon Wars', the M2/3/6 Bradley, has turned out to be a pretty good armored fighting vehicle that has repeatedly proven itself in combat. That along with other sometimes maligned weapon systems to include the Tomahawk, F-117, Stinger, AEGIS and even M-16 have turned out to be excellent weapon systems even after sometimes troubled starts and/or development issues. That said there are some that do turn out to be utter disasters...cough LCS cough...but fortunately those are a lot less common than the success stories for us.

Another thing to keep in mind, we are unusually open as a country about these sorts of issues. Even some of our allies keep these sorts of things under wraps, for good and bad reasons. Our enemies, even more so. A good example, you don't hear much about the incomparable awesomeness of the Su-57 Felon nowadays do you?

Obviously, they crossed the cables when they tried to jump start it. Ivan left the lights on overnight.

 

[Griz882]

GAO: USS Constellation frigate construction “at a standstill”

The build of the first-in-class of the Constellation-class guided missile frigates is "at a standstill" according to the US GAO.

www.naval-technology.com

https://news.usni.org/2024/05/29/constellation-frigate-unplanned-weight-growth-could-limit-service-life-says-gao

Here's a pic of the Constellation class frigate currently going through a Pentagon Wars-esque process of iterating until the end result is way too expensive and doesn't do the things it was originally meant to do. Honestly amazing if the articles are accurate that the platform we planned to acquire because it was an inexpensive preexisting design then gets entirely blown up by differing requirements that obviate the utility in going off the shelf to begin with... oh and the lead ship has been under construction for a couple years already while they sort all that out. It's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see how it works out for them!

Apparently there are insiders looking to disrupt the DICK (Defense Industrial Congressional Komplex) - OK I added the “country K” for comic impact - a term created by John McCain. My favorite part…establishing an “Area 52” to test naval ideas.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/06/04/united-states-drones-pentagon-military-weapons-evolution/

Still, it makes some sense when it aligns with stories like keeping the U-2 alive because….Congress.

If you have some spare time read this…https://www.hoover.org/sites/default/files/research/docs/Brose_MoneyballMilitary_web_230921.pdf

 

[Flash]

Apparently there are insiders looking to disrupt the DICK (Defense Industrial Congressional Komplex) - OK I added the “country K” for comic impact - a term created by John McCain. My favorite part…establishing an “Area 52” to test naval ideas.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/06/04/united-states-drones-pentagon-military-weapons-evolution/

That piece lost all credibility with me by opening with:

For several decades, military reformers such as retired Navy Capt. Jerry Hendrix have pleaded with the Pentagon to stop buying wildly expensive but vulnerable aircraft carriers and fighter jets and instead focus on getting vast numbers of cheap drones.

The article makes a few good points but takes away quite a few wrong lessons (the Russian Navy has lost control of the Black Sea because of drones?!) and misses out on some of the bigger lessons of the war like practice, professionalism and weapons testing and certification still matter. One thing that seems to be lost is that Ukraine has quite limited capabilities in a lot of areas, and some of the weapon systems we have that these 'reformers' deride would do far better than the hodgepodge of things Ukraine has been using in this war.

Another thing the author and some of these reformers completely whiff on is that some of the weapons they advocate for are be used today against the US and our allies, by the Iranians their proxies the Huthis among a few others and they haven't done all that well so far. Everything from cruise missiles and one way attack drones of the flying and floating kind to ballistic missiles, to include anti-ship variety. Are these the most advanced weapon systems out there? Certainly not, but they are still a threat that we have blunted and defeated after years of preparing for them. And while our response hasn't been flawless, or inexpensive, it certainly does show the value of our TTPs and weapon systems.

 

[Griz882]

That piece lost all credibility with me by opening with:



The article makes a few good points but takes away quite a few wrong lessons (the Russian Navy has lost control of the Black Sea because of drones?!) and misses out on some of the bigger lessons of the war like practice, professionalism and weapons testing and certification still matter. One thing that seems to be lost is that Ukraine has quite limited capabilities in a lot of areas, and some of the weapon systems we have that these 'reformers' deride would do far better than the hodgepodge of things Ukraine has been using in this war.

Another thing the author and some of these reformers completely whiff on is that some of the weapons they advocate for are be used today against the US and our allies, by the Iranians their proxies the Huthis among a few others and they haven't done all that well so far. Everything from cruise missiles and one way attack drones of the flying and floating kind to ballistic missiles, to include anti-ship variety. Are these the most advanced weapon systems out there? Certainly not, but they are still a threat that we have blunted and defeated after years of preparing for them. And while our response hasn't been flawless, or inexpensive, it certainly does show the value of our TTPs and weapon systems.

No real argument with what you wrote, but I think the stand out point isn’t necessarily the “drone” but the shockingly inadequate way we field and build major weapon systems. If it takes us 7 years to float a frigate or 5 plus years to deploy a fighter jet, we might as well start taking Mandarin lessons right now. Of course, I am being a bit silly on my comment (China doesn’t need to invade the U.S. to win a war just as we don’t need to invade China to win one) but the simple fact remains that we need to learn to field systems very, very quickly based on current circumstances - not seven years in the future. At the same time we need to develop those seven years from now systems so they can be built quickly…when we need them. Today many people mock the idea such as quickly arming merchant ships like super tankers with “drop in” missile launchers or buying an “off the shelf” jet trainer, but trust me, well do it because we’ve used such stopgap measures before in both World Wars. I get that a lot of ink has been spilled over things like U.S. ship building capability and the ever-shrinking ownership of U.S. defense industries (also a congressional issue) but we are fundamentally gabbing ourselves to defeat.

I understand federal budgets, I understand politics, and so on, and I’ll be the first to admit I am far from having a better answer. The real problem is…I fear I am tied with the “best and brightest” the Pentagon is putting forward today.