abctotheabc
Well-Known Member
How was it? What were things you enjoyed about it most and things you didn't enjoy? What is getting qualified like?
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- Thread starter KMC1020
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How was it? What were things you enjoyed about it most and things you didn't enjoy? What is getting qualified like?
SharkBait
Well-Known Member
Honestly I found it a bit dissapointing, but it tends to very from ship to ship even out here in 7th fleet. You could get the best chain of command with the best port calls or you could have a crappy one with your only port calls being Guam every month while you float in a box on mission. On small boy specifics its easy to stand out as a performer or a turd, since there are only 15 JO's on board. The department heads are first tour so they are fairly green and dont know what they are doing anymore than you do. Qualifying is just a matter of learning some knowledge and being confident, but that doesnt change from ship to ship. My advice would be to stay away from 7th fleet, go to an amphib for the easy qual. Stateside ships will hit better ports and have a more fixed schedule, therefore more enjoyable and better quality of life.
Is it any wonder COs and XOs don't get much sleep?
Huh . . .
I chuckled a bit too. It's no secret that most things are more laid back on L class ships than on CRUDES but it wasn't too long ago on the steamships that the baby SWOs in the gator navy were checking in- and getting their EOOW qual before they went topside for OOD. My SWO friends, young and old, all thought earning that EOOW letter was a crap ton of work.
Dunno what order the community is doing these days or how things vary by coast or ship to ship. The surface navy and the Navy in general does have a funny way of going back to the old way of doing things every few years... and going back to the other old way a few years after that...
In other words, be careful what you wish for.
@SharkBait - enjoy your shore tour (or your second sea your, whichever it is you're doing now)
abctotheabc
Well-Known Member
Wow, very interesting. Thank you for this!
If anyone else on here has anything they want to share too I'd love to read and dissect your mind. There really is a lot I don't know yet and I'm trying to soak it all in before I leave.
Max the Mad Russian
Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Seems to be the long-lasting outcome of CBT for Shoe ensigns. 2003-2012 the Shoe CO and XO had to nurce their O-1s instead of care of readiness of their ship. Though this CBT is not the case anymore, it created habits, and habits are always die hard...
SharkBait
Well-Known Member
Had a talk with the detailer a while back and asked if 7th fleet CRUDES would get any extra points on second tour due to the high demand billets and they said only for EOOW and TAO (Mine sweeps can get those first tour). I know guys who have bearly got 2 months underway on a minesweep leaving with those quals while guys with 15+ years CRUDES (STO/EMO) are being refused the qual due to being "too junior" by the CoC. Really if I could do it over again I would go Mine sweep> Amphib> CRUDES.
egiv
Well-Known Member
I just read through this thread for the first time and, even though most of it is few years old, everything (at least about DDGs) rings true today. It's a tough first tour no matter where you go (although being in Hawaii, for example, isn't so bad), but you get exposure to nearly every aspect of shipboard operations and (if motivated/competent) have a lot of opportunity to take on more responsibility while still relatively junior.
Max the Mad Russian
Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
A little question about difference in practics. If a JO has been qual'ed as EOOW and OOD and eventually "pinned" as SWO on an MCM , should s/he pass some re-quals for EOOW or OOD watches during the next tour on, say, LHA? Look, one of the causes the Russian navy (and Royal Navy as well) didn't establish something like SWO pin is the big difference between the surface ships its officers could be send to. Say, earning all the quals on a frigate (generally ASW ship) means nothing when you're getting the next assignment on a nuclear cruiser (guided missile ship) - there you should go through all the quals all over again. Eventually, top brass once decided that you know ship and crew good enough just being the CO of that ship, not earlier. Thus, only Commanding Officer (different designs for surface ship and submarine) pin is something that's nailed the expertise and skills for good - all Russian officers and men beneath are wearing nothing about quals and competencies. Well, maybe due to the lack of both
Yes-ish. It's CO's discretion, but as a 2nd tour, you're likely to stand some OOD U/Is and maybe answer some board-like questions before getting an OOD letter. I didn't see any DHs doing that, but it could happen. (We actually never qualified a 2nd tour who was clearly passed along instead of being non-attained by his 1st ship. That's an exceptional circumstance, though.)
For TAO & EOOW, you only need to be re-qual'd if you plan to stand the watch or if your job requires it. CHENG? You're definitely re-qualing EOOW (but it should be pretty quick). TAO would be the same for everyone standing watch. However, if your TAO qual is from a non-CRUDES and you were going to a CRUDES, I would expect that process to be much longer.
I think it really depends on what you want out of your career. Getting those extra quals done on the 1st tour help you get the 2nd tour of your choice, but I think it happens at the expense of shiphandling experience. If you want to command a ship, I would try to be the best OOD vs. having multiple quals in your first tour. (An exception here would be getting your EOOW as an Engineering Divo, so that you could take 2nd tour NAV orders.) But if you want to get out before DH school, go ahead and qual EOOW early to get that RIVRON/non-traditional 2nd tour.
Interesting because that's pretty much the opposite advice I've seen given out from people who are counseling longevity in the SWO world. CRUDES was always the king with Amphibs being the a distant second while the sweeps are the land of the misfit toys. Essentially, the way I saw it as an outsider was if you started CRUDES then you could always easily go to one of the other platforms but if you started sweeps you'd be facing an uphill battle if you wanted to do something else.
Max the Mad Russian
Hands off Ukraine! Feet too
Do those other platforms include carriers too? In his book once CNO ADM Holloway III noted that it was his innovation to send an outstanding DDG' CHENGs after that tour to a carriers' Eng Dept against their expectations to get the next tour on Aegis cruisers. Bet they were happy, isn't it?
Same thing goes for PCs. I left the PC with a TAO-equivalent qual and AQD. We call it something different since we're Patrol Boat Sailors and are odd but it details the same. I really can't say enough how rewarding my time on the PC was and how much I learned. I recommend to every JO doing a tour on a PC or Minesweep.